Supersaw with trumpet quality?

[Labmonkey]

Can anyone give me a few hints on how to get this sound? I understand that it's a supersaw but it has a quality that I can only describe as trumpet like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPpKQ033ajc


It's the mid rang pad that starts becoming prominent at around 3:10 and even the arped lead that comes in at 3:23.

I know it's only a subtle difference and I can get pretty decent supersaws.

I have a feeling it's something to do with using squares (instead of saws) and PW modulation or maybe it's just good filtering? When I try with square waves Im just getting fairly buzzy square sounds instead of smooth trumpety supersaws/squares.

Thanks in advance

[enfield]

i'm sure that 2 pads are layered on each other @ 3:10, the one with 'trumpet' quality comes purely from smart use of filtering =) afaik there are quite a few similar patches already in the Virus from MS (manuel schleis, one half of denga & manus, vengeance, volition). try MS pads first then read what the others say I can't describe it technically again, it's only the filter on hypersaw and harmonically tuned osc's I think.

play till you get it

[Labmonkey]

Hey thanks for that

Last night I found some very trumpety arps by MS but haven't had a chance to pick them apart yet.

Cheers

[Timo]

Sounds beautiful doesn't it. Manuel Schleis sure knows his stuff.

To me it sounds like several supersaws layered and then heavily tape-overdriven or distorted, and the sweet spot of the cutoff frequency and resonance meet at that specific note to accentuate the distortion (if filter keyfollow isn't otherwise matched with all other notes). There's also ambience/reverb on there, and the patch is most likely EQd to tame everything. Other instruments provide backing at the same time, the high-pitch strings. I think it's a blend of all the different sounds played at certain notes that creates the effect at those specific points. A lot of variables.

[Labmonkey]

I was thinking about adding distortion to the patches.

Am I right in thinking that the effects section is post filter on the Virus?

I'm also slightly confused about how filter saturation works. Is it distortion added to only the filter affected frequencies. If so, is this the only way on the Virus to add pre filter distortion? Does filter saturation result in frequencies outside of the filter band being created?

[Timo]

Hi Lab

Originally Posted by Labmonkey

I was thinking about adding distortion to the patches.

My thoughts are that tape saturation (as opposed to tube/valve) might perhaps be a nice type of distortion to use in this instance. It's smoother and more ambient than valve/tube distortion, imho. A touch of normal distortion might help it on the way too.

Am I right in thinking that the effects section is post filter on the Virus?

Yep.

I'm also slightly confused about how filter saturation works.

Filter Saturation is POST Filter 1 but PRE Filter 2. However, the Saturation stage (if enabled) is tied to Filter 1.

But it depends on how you configure your filter section. The filter section is very powerful, so long as you understand how it all works:-



So just as one example, if you select a Serial filter mode you can have your sound going into Filter 1, you can apply Saturation to it, and then you can use Filter 2 to tame the saturation.

Also be aware that the Filter Balance knob also critically affects the output. It decides how much of Filter 1 and/or Filter 2 you can hear at any one time, either by isolating (soloing) each filter or mixing them together in parallel, or a blend of anything inbetween.

I will re-do that diagram as it doesn't show how Filter Balance also affects the sound. If the Filter Balance is in the middle, for example, then the output will be 50% Filter1+Saturation and 50% Filter2.

Is it distortion added to only the filter affected frequencies. If so, is this the only way on the Virus to add pre filter distortion?

Anything that goes into Filter 1 will be distorted if you have a Saturation model applied to it. Remember that you can do more to it than add 'saturation'. The other models include clipping, rectifying, wave-shaping, bit/sample reduction, and other simple, shelf EQs.

Does filter saturation result in frequencies outside of the filter band being created?

Yes, it does. That's why Filter 2 is POST Filter 1, so you can tame these new frequencies. Saturation wont excite the frequencies too high, though, as the frequencies entering the Saturation stage are limited by, and dependent on, the Filter 1 cutoff.

[Labmonkey]

Bo!

Thanks heaps for writting all of that. It must have taken a fair chunk of time.
Suddenly a heap of new possibilities have opened up for me.

So in my Virus reference manual it only describes the first four distortions as "Four different distortion curves". Are any of them similar to tape saturation or are they just differing levels of valve modelled distortion?

Edit:
So I'm thinking that split and parallel are now incredibly useful for distorting only part of the sound, like the top end. Or even using a band stop filter I can leave a band undistorted, say if I want to clean up mush etc?