Long USB Solutions

[Timo]

Originally Posted by MBTC

I guess you could always ban me again under trumped up reasons / false pretenses if it really bothers you?

I wasn't dripping about anything here, I was asking the guy his secret sauce for success with USB since it seems rare around here. I read more from folks with USB issues than success, so when someone has success I'd like to know what worked for them.

Has the integration improved in the last 3-4 years? If so, where can I see a list of what was fixed? I'm genuinely interested in that. If it hasn't been fixed, and it's still true that more people have issues than success, then someone should drip about it until Access does something about it.

I commented about that fact here, because I think his chances of success with a longer cable are slim. Not sure why you're making more of it than that.

The problems you experienced, during the very brief time (two days) you had a TI four years ago before returning it, could have been down to a huge number of things. Your problem, if not external, may well have been fixed in the last four years since you had it. Looking back, I seem to remember you using a very early beta 64-bit TI OS on an equally early 64-bit Windows OS using a 32-bit Fruity Loops plugin in a 64-bit wrapper.

However you and we will never get to the bottom of your specific problem as unless you get your hands on a TI again, you'll never be in a position to retest and revalidate your standpoint. As such it's become something of an infinite loop hearing it.

Which OS were you using at the time? Change-logs are released with each TI OS software update - a lot will have changed since then, along with people's personal PC/Mac OSs, setups and computer hardware (USB) too.

It is extremely important to discuss findings - positive or negative - no-one is denying otherwise. This is not a sun-shines-out-of-AccessMusic's-arse forum. But seemingly forever bashing the Virus passive-aggressively time and time again based on outdated experiences and taking threads OT with your own modus operandi and peddling the same old shit for years without displaying any willingness to retest anything is monotonal and unconstructive. MB, you're an intelligent guy, you must know.

The Virus does appear to work for a good deal of people. Even at the time when yours didn't.

Nobody mentioned banning you, under trumped up reasons / false pretences or otherwise. An odd and incredibly loaded choice of words, but yours nonetheless.

Furthermore, you've not been banned before, and I have no intention on banning you, so why say that? Only one person has been banned in all the time I've been here (is your name Telson?), all the rest are bots that are largely auto-nuked.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Timo

The problems you experienced, during the very brief time (two days) you had a TI four years ago before returning it, could have been down to a huge number of things. Your problem, if not external, may well have been fixed in the last four years since you had it. Looking back, I seem to remember you using a very early beta 64-bit TI OS on an equally early 64-bit Windows OS using a 32-bit Fruity Loops plugin in a 64-bit wrapper.

I actually had the TI2 desktop for a couple of weeks before giving up on it at that time. I spent literally dozens of hours trying to make it work for me.

You're partially right on the setup: 64 bit Windows, 32 bit FLStudio, 32 bit Virus Control no wrappers involved, 64 bit Virus driver (required to match the OS). The only early and perhaps immature piece of software there was the 64-bit Virus driver as that was a fairly new release by Access.

At the time I was fully willing to accept the warts of a new driver release, or perhaps an incompatibility with my DAW at the time, but what surprised me was the more I asked around (on this forum partially but others as well), I found that there were some folks having success but at a ratio of something like 15:1 there were more folks that were experiencing the same thing I did, regardless of OS version or bitness, driver version, TI OS version, etc. It seemed the general consensus was that we were to either live with the issues or simply embrace the Virus for it's strengths (everything other than USB integration).

Originally Posted by Timo

However you and we will never get to the bottom of your specific problem as unless you get your hands on a TI again, you'll never be in a position to retest and revalidate your standpoint. As such it's become something of an infinite loop hearing it.

In order to justify another purchase of a TI, I just want to get some level of confidence that things have changed. The search for that confidence is what you're perceiving as the infinite loop. It recurs because the answers to my questions do not seem to just magically materialize at the end of outdated threads. Only when new folks trickle in and I have an opportunity to discuss it will I learn something new -- or optionally, if the forum regulars chime in with an update like "wow what did Access do? Integration all of sudden works a champ", that would be another indication that there has been a breakthrough, but so far I have not seen that. Also, it's very easy to ignore my posts for anyone that are annoyed by subject matter.

Originally Posted by Timo

Which OS were you using at the time? Change-logs are released with each TI OS software update - a lot will have changed since then, along with people's personal PC/Mac OSs, setups and computer hardware (USB) too.

(see above for OS info, although I don't recall the specific TI OS version, it was the active release at the time the early Win64 driver for the TI came out). I can fully believe things have changed, I would just like to see some evidence that things have changed prior to purchase. The questions I asked in this thread were exactly that -- searching for evidence of improvement.

Originally Posted by Timo

It is extremely important to discuss findings - positive or negative - no-one is denying otherwise. This is not a sun-shines-out-of-AccessMusic's-arse forum. But seemingly forever bashing the Virus passive-aggressively time and time again based on outdated experiences and taking threads OT with your own modus operandi and peddling the same old shit for years without displaying any willingness to retest anything is monotonal and unconstructive. MB, you're an intelligent guy, you must know.

As far as "passive-aggressive bashing" of the Virus -- that can only be a perception thing. I have never bashed the Virus itself, only the integration portion of it, and I certainly have no interest in "peddling" anything here. What could I possibly gain? A little improvement in the software quality of releases from Access maybe? Wouldn't that be a good thing for every owner of a TI? This thread was fully OT of USB and the TI until the current diversion arose. Admittedly I don't have an answer to the long USB cable connection, but I think that is pressing one's luck with any USB-enabled device, running outside of spec I mean, and I gave the thread plenty of time to see if anyone could respond to his question before I even posted my questions and there were no takers, so I don't see the damage done there.

About testing, I would have retested a long time ago if there were not a significant cost involved, both for the Virus itself and my own time. Time is money to me, so I try to make efficient use of it. Spending 30 or 40 hours trying to get a device to work as advertised is something I will bite the bullet on once, but in order to do it a second time I need to see a reasonable level of evidence that the problem has been addressed. If someone else wants to fund this effort, I will be happy to partake. I don't want to keep ordering Virus's only to return them for restocking every time there is a small glimmer of hope, not to mention the monetary value of 30+ hours of my time to me. I would charge a client about $10k for that much of my engineering time on a short term hourly project basis.

Originally Posted by Timo

The Virus does appear to work for a good deal of people. Even at the time when yours didn't.

I take informal polls of this from time to time, and I've only known one forum regular here that has posted tales of consistently good results, until this thread. I now have a tally of two folks who seem to have good luck with the TI feature. If there are more, they have not responded to my questions in the past. I think many of the users here are using pre-TI models, so the matter at hand is a non-issue for those folks.

Originally Posted by Timo

Nobody mentioned banning you, under trumped up reasons / false pretences or otherwise. An odd and incredibly loaded choice of words, but yours nonetheless.

Furthermore, you've not been banned before, and I have no intention on banning you, so why say that? Only one person has been banned in all the time I've been here (is your name Telson?), all the rest are bots that are largely auto-nuked.

I am not Telson, and if it was not you that banned me then I sincerely apologize for the confusion and above remarks. I was once banned from this forum for one week, the stated reason was "maliciously spreading false information". (I have a screenshot somewhere of the system message, although I'd have to search for it).

This arose from an argument I had with another forum regular, who decided to dole out a bunch of shit to me and turn it into a flame war, and I was simply returning the favor at the time. There was no intentional spreading of misinformation on my part. To the best of my memory, I posted some inaccurate information regarding the way audio outs were handled with VC inside of FLStudio. When I was called on my error, I apologized for the misinformation, but the whole situation still managed to mushroom into way more than it needed to. That's what I meant by trumped up reasons.

I do not know who else has permissions to issue temp-bans to users, so I apparently erroneously assumed it was you. Again, sorry for that.

[Berni]

Originally Posted by MBTC

Wow, good catch Berni -- I didn't even think about the significance of HD in his post, not being a pro tools user myself. But, is that really the sole reason for success? The problems that I saw were under conditions where the CPU wasn't being stressed at all. The DAW would have had plenty of headroom for processing. I always felt the problem was more that USB 2.0 speeds either weren't being utilized, or (at the time) that I was having some sort of system problem with the USB controller that was introducing latency -- wondering how that problem would go away in his scenario, unless of course the HD hardware has a dedicated USB port that the Virus can plug into? Not familiar enough with protools hardware.

Cant say for certain, all I know is that the people with HD rigs are the ones that seem to have had more luck with the RTAS version of VC & the poorer LE users like me, not so much.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

Cant say for certain, all I know is that the people with HD rigs are the ones that seem to have had more luck with the RTAS version of VC & the poorer LE users like me, not so much.

Would you say the situation with integration (for non HD rigs at least) has or hasn't improved much in the last few years overall?

[Berni]

Originally Posted by MBTC

Would you say the situation with integration (for non HD rigs at least) has or hasn't improved much in the last few years overall?

I would say it's pretty much the same as it's always been, totally unusable. I run the VST version with Live with very few problems nowadays.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

I would say it's pretty much the same as it's always been, totally unusable. I run the VST version with Live with very few problems nowadays.

Hmm.. you mean the RTAS version for Protools is still borked but the VST is working well these days?

[Berni]

Originally Posted by MBTC

Hmm.. you mean the RTAS version for Protools is still borked but the VST is working well these days?

Yup this has been my experience. The virus has it's own port on my macbook pro & VC works perfectly in Live, arps are synced, no popping or other artifacts & barely any latency. I don't push it too hard & get too crazy with the multi stuff but for what I do it suits my needs. I'm just happy I have found a way to use it reliably & can actually make some music with it. It has been a bit of a love/hate relationship with it these last few years but now I can use it without tearing my hair out it's a lot more lovey nowadays.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

Yup this has been my experience. The virus has it's own port on my macbook pro & VC works perfectly in Live, arps are synced, no popping or other artifacts & barely any latency. I don't push it too hard & get too crazy with the multi stuff but for what I do it suits my needs. I'm just happy I have found a way to use it reliably & can actually make some music with it. It has been a bit of a love/hate relationship with it these last few years but now I can use it without tearing my hair out it's a lot more lovey nowadays.

That sounds more like the Ultranova in a host; not perfect, but definitely usable. This does make me want to test the VC waters again, although I don't know if it will happen immediately as I just plonked down a serious amount of dough for some home improvements, and of course have all the construction hassle to deal with (can't have too many projects going at once). I was thinking that as recently as a few months ago you were still recommending against a virus purchase? But I guess if it's improved that much, I should withhold judgement until I've tried the new and improved software.

[feedingear]

@Timo, Juho handed out the ban for a report I submitted, after MBTC posted some information that was completely incorrect and I pulled him up on it.

The point Timo is making and I agree with, is that every single thread you post in either involves you bagging out the Virus or Access as a company, or turns in to a running commentary about how you couldnt get integration working for you.

Everyone on this forum is aware you couldn't get the TI working to what you considered a satisfactory level. It is likely the most documented TI user experience available to whoever cares to read about it in these forums. Therefore, it does not need to be reiterated in every single thread, nor do you need to continually turn a post off topic.

If it were me, I would have banned you from the forum three years ago for doing this, but clearly Timo is a much more patient man then I.

x.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by feedingear

If it were me, I would have banned you from the forum three years ago for doing this, but clearly Timo is a much more patient man then I.

I don't recall asking your opinion.