virus c vs snow ?

[acc]

Hello,

i am about to buy my first hardware synth,
and it should be definately a virus.
I like the sound ,fx and filters of the virus c.
Now i read, that access has a new one named snow.

Is there any difference in filters, fx, compared to the c ?
In comparisionchart (http://www.access-music.de/comparisonchart.php4)
are only the "older" models.

I know the snow have a hypersaw, and its "total integration" - feature.
Also in the beginning areas there where some problems with the "ti" feature.

Do the snow still needs "bouncing" ?
Do the snow produce the same like the "c", when its the same preset,
also for its fx and filters ?

My question is now, what should i buy ?
I mean, for its my first hardware synth, i would love the much knobs on the "c", but for some kind i would stick to snow, for easier integration, save presets, handling and automations in the sequencer.

I dont know what to do, when the snow might produce the same like "c" in sound fx, and Filters, i would stick to snow.
Please anybody could direct me to the right model ?
oh and i would use it with FLstudio.
Thanks in advantage
acc

[Arndt]

I had to make the same decision some weeks ago, and I've got a Virus B at the end, compared it to the C and the Snow, also checked the TI. I would recommend the C, which is very similar to the B. The newer models have got some more features, voices etc, but are totally overpriced and, soundwise, not that much better than their predecessors. The original and sexy Virus-sound can be achieved very well with B or C.
Also the 'Total Integration' thing on the Snow seems to bring more trouble than fun. Many people spend their time fixing problems rather than creating good sound. So if I were you, I would get a C and wait another two years to consider the Snow or TI again.
I prefer to get a bit older models in good shape, which were top notch a few years ago, for a fraction of the money you have to spend for brandnew gear. Musically you won't get much advantages with the Snow or TI anyway. I can see that on the Virus B already: for me it's neither necessary nor possible to use ALL features the B delivers to create some really tasteful sound.
By the way, for me the process of making music gets more complicated and slower, the more features and possibilities I have at hand. For me the B and C models are the perfect balance between functionality and simplicity, with no compromises soundwise. Ok, I have to admit, that I have a Roland V-Synth already (for Hypersaw and such), which is a monster, but apart from that the very special character of the Virus stands for it's own, and I could do it without the V-Synth.

Good look, and have fun
Cheers
Arndt

[acc]

Hi Arndt, thanks for your words, i think i will stick to the "C".

[Onkel Dunkel]

The main differences is that the Virus TI / Snow has following features that the C has not: Wavetables, hypersaw, total integration, atomizer and user editable arpegiator. Other than that they are very much the same. It´s mostly a question of polyphony i think... I have a C and it´s great. Only thing i needed from the TI was the wavetables and the atomizer but for wavetables i use my Waldorf Blofeld and for Glitchy effects like the atomizer i use Dblue Glitch (great freeware VST)...

[AlexHall74]

Nice comparisons between the Snow and Ti Snow. I have not heard a Ti in person, but I have checked out some demos of it on YouTube (from KeyboardWizard) and in all honestly, most of it sounds like a Virus C to me, but there are certainly a few of the presets tha were deomstrated where I thought to myself "I don't think I've heard my KC do THAT before."

Arndt's statement about getting the most value out of the B, C series is valid to me, as at some point the law of diminshing returns sets in on every well developed product or service, and the extra money associated with the cost of the latest-greatest model is more spent on marketing/hype than worthwhile functionality.

Sure I'd love to have a Ti for the features it has over the C series; but I also like having a little cash around too. I bought my Virus KC as a new scratch & dent and I have yet to find anything wrong with it. I recently bought a Motif ES Rack for around $700/shipping included on eBAY in perfect condition. Used is not a bad thing if you shop around.



-Alex

[marc]

arndt,

i won't attempt to change your opinion on total integration even though it kind of saddens me when people state it doesn't work even though it does for the most of us.

you say that the TI range is overpriced. well, if you compare the TI to a second hand model you might get this impression but since the TI essentially costs the same like the C did (when you remove compensation for inflation and currency exchange) i don't understand where you're coming from.

i have my own opinion on what i would get but since i'm working for Access i leave you guys to this discussion. all i can say is that i'm personally tired of the sound of pure Virtual Analogue so i spend much more time using the new oscillators in the Snow than the old ones.

best, marc

[AlexHall74]

Originally Posted by marc

arndt,

i won't attempt to change your opinion on total integration even though it kind of saddens me when people state it doesn't work even though it does for the most of us.

you say that the TI range is overpriced. well, if you compare the TI to a second hand model you might get this impression but since the TI essentially costs the same like the C did (when you remove compensation for inflation and currency exchange) i don't understand where you're coming from.

i have my own opinion on what i would get but since i'm working for Access i leave you guys to this discussion. all i can say is that i'm personally tired of the sound of pure Virtual Analogue so i spend much more time using the new oscillators in the Snow than the old ones.

best, marc

Hey Marc,

Adjusting for inflation and currency exchange when doing synth price comparisons is certainly a sound thing to consider doing, especially considering the U.S. dollar's poor performane in the past few years. Dollar for dollar a Virus gives you more functionality and better sound than any synth I have ever played, hands down.

There is also one BIG risk in buying used: The synth stops working shortly after you buy it. This happened to our own Digital Screams after buying a DX7 mkii a year or so ago, at a pretty penny too if I remember correctly.

Also, it is important to be able to differentiate when something does not work, VS, when it is a new piece of gear that the owner does not know how to work yet. Frustration is quick to manifest, and patience slow to prevail.

[Arndt]

I'm sorry, Marc, I didn't want to hurt anybody's feeling about the Virus generally and especially the TI or Snow, which are without any doubt excellent instruments. But when I look at the pricetags, I do that in an absolute rather than relative way. About 1,7K Euros for the TI Desktop and more than 1K for the Snow is a lot of money for me to spend for a synthesizer, although I'm living in Germany, the country where these instruments are produced. People in US and other countries with somewhat weak currencies (against Euro) are having an even harder time to decide to get one.

So, when I'm considering an instrument, I have to take a good look at it, compare it to alternatives, and decide at the end, which one delivers the most 'bang for the buck'. Then I have to compare it to what my bank account delivers. Everybody knows that, everybody does it this way, except for those running a multimillion $ studio in LA, where some thousands more or less are nothing.

Apart from the money, in my ears, there's isn't that big difference between the TI range and the older C or B model soundwise, in my opinion. So I just couldn't justify to pay that much for a TI or Snow at the moment. Also, the B/C-engine works very well for me, so no need for TI right now.

Regarding 'Total Integration' it's just my experience and the fact, that a lot of people are complaining about it. And yes, I know, that, on the other hand, all those thousands of satisfied TI- and Snow users don't make a buzz usually.

But let me tell you this: I've been testing the Snow and the TI Desktop (both connected to a Polar and a PC) at a very big store here in Germany. The guy in the shop told me, that they had continueing trouble to get things to work with Virus Control and a DAW, and actually it took quite a while to set things up. Then, when I played, some strange sounds occured from time to time when switching between presets and sometimes when just playing a preset. Then, shortly before I was through with my test run, the Polar produced something that I would call 'MIDI salad'. It wasn't possible anymore to just play single notes or chords, the Polar instead decided to play lots of chaotic notes of it's own gusto - we had to switch it off and on again to stop that frightening cacophony. It was already disconnected from the PC then and just MIDIed to the Snow.

So, as I said, it's just what I've heard and what I've seen, and at the moment it's just too much money for the possibillity to get some technical trouble with the unit. But for sure most of the units work allright, and for me the TI range will be worth to be considered again, and I will keep an eye on it, because these instruments are very special and inspiring. At the moment I'm very happy with my Virus B - until my next acute GAS attack

Best Regards to all
Arndt

[marc]

Originally Posted by Arndt

But let me tell you this: I've been testing the Snow and the TI Desktop (both connected to a Polar and a PC) at a very big store here in Germany. The guy in the shop told me, that they had continueing trouble to get things to work with Virus Control and a DAW, and actually it took quite a while to set things up. Then, when I played, some strange sounds occured from time to time when switching between presets and sometimes when just playing a preset. Then, shortly before I was through with my test run, the Polar produced something that I would call 'MIDI salad'. It wasn't possible anymore to just play single notes or chords, the Polar instead decided to play lots of chaotic notes of it's own gusto - we had to switch it off and on again to stop that frightening cacophony. It was already disconnected from the PC then and just MIDIed to the Snow.

hi arndt,

do you really think we would ship a product which still has those basic problems after so many software maintenance and feature updates? i don't want to say that our software has no bugs. it certainly has, it is software after all... but i think if those basic things would not work we wouldn't be in business anymore - it least not in the business of Total Integration.

let us know which store it is, i'll send somebody by to fix their installation. this type of bad advertisement is counterproductive for everybody.

best, marc

[Doc Jones]

just read this thread and i have to agree with Marc. I have had a TI since the very early days (mine was a preorder) and yeah there were indeed some problems with it initially - some serious. But i can say without hesitation that this this is rock solid now and has been for quite some time.