Is anyone using a laptop?

[Old Vantaa Man]

Please, I'd like to know what your machine, interface and general setup is.

I'm mostly concerned about soft synth latency.

xx Matt

[AlexHall74]

Matt,

I have a Dell Inspiron 1700 equipped as follows:

Dual Core Intel 1830s, 2 GB RAM, 80 GB/7200 internal hard drive, DVD writer, 6 USB 2.0 ports, 1 4-pin FireWire port, 1 ExpressCard expansion slot, etc...

I use the Mackie Onyx Satellite for my audio interface.

I have used this Dell notebook for 2 music related purposes: (1) Mobile recording rig, and (2) Mobile DJ rig.

Both are handled very well by this notebook. While recording I typically run Stylus RMX, Wusikstation, and Albino III in Tracktion 2 as my sequencer, no pops/clicks/latency issues.

I've recorded a friend's guitar chops and a few vocal odds and ends, no problems.

The only issue I had was that the 4-pin FireWire port went on the fritz on the only way to fix it was to have the motherboard replaced, which is not a big deal as it was under warranty. A guy came to my house to fix it, it took one hour.

Originally I wanted this notebook to be my primary DAW, but it becomes cumbersome having multiple FireWire external hard drives attahced to it, the Mackie, my M-Audio MIDI Sport Uno, etc...

Hope this info helps...

-Alex

[Old Vantaa Man]

Thanks Alex

So, just the one hard disk? And you can run RMX, Wisi and Albino all at the same time?

[AlexHall74]

I have an external 250 GB Western Digital 7200 RPM FireWire hard drive that I store all my VST sample libraries on.

Yes, I'm able to run all three VSTs at the same time. The CPU meter runs between 30% and 75% most of the time. Near-upper limit CPU spikes can occur from time to time if layered presets with alot of sustain are used (Albino III) but none have been a showstopper yet.

Again, this is a secondary rig for me. It's what I can take out of the house with a good blend of portability and power for not too much money. I paid $800 for the laptop 1 year ago. It's primary use is DJ work, for which it kicks ass running Virtual DJ 4.xx...

Hope this info helps...

[logo80]

an old G4 powerbook... with a motu traveler. 1.33GHz CPU, 1.25GB ram. Digital performer as audio unit host. I can use one or two softsynths without hearing latency or suffer from processor problems. Anyway I still prefer hardware... can't gig with a computer at all.
Regards, Lorenzo

[Timo]

Hi Matt

If you plan to use a firewire interface with the laptop for low-latency music stuff then avoid all laptops that don't have a TI (Texas Instruments) firewire chipset, or ascertain as to whether the soundcard is compatible with any other specific computer firewire chipsets.

Unfortunately it's getting harder and harder to find laptops with TI firewire chipsets inside them as laptop manufacturers are turning to other fw chipset manufacturers such as Ricoh (the Dell laptops use these), O2 Micro (and these), NEC, ENE, etc. which are less stable (clock wise) and have a lower throughput (limiting the number of channels that can be used at lower latencies), unless your soundcard explicitly states they are compatible with those brands.

For the newer laptops with PCI-ExpressCard slots, the PCI-ExpressCard buss also uses the same controller as the firewire, so you can't get around the problem by merely buying a Texas Instruments PCI-ExpressCard and plugging it in and using that. Everything on that buss (cardbus/firewire) must be native TI, or whatever other firewire chipset the soundcard manufacturers exclusively state is compatible with that particular soundcard. The older PCMCIA slots (as opposed to PCI-ExpressCard) with any make should be ok with a TI card, though.

I got absolutely piss bored by looking into it as pretty much all the bigger 17" laptops I was looking into at the time have non-TI based FW/PCI-x chipsets/controllers, so it's ending up that I'm building my own desktop instead for making choons and will probably get a cheapo laptop for non-music purposes. I have a Motu Traveller firewire soundcard.

[It's all gone a bit Ricoh crazy]
[Discussion on various makes/models and chipsets]
[Crappy Dell firewire]

Also the Apple Macbook Pro laptops (Apple being one who used to use TI exclusively) will be changing their TI chipsets to another manufacturer some time soon (if not already), and I believe also the standard Macbooks may do too, so no-one's safe.

Of course if you have a USB interface, then ignore the above.

[jasedee]

Just get a Mac you tight arse...

[Old Vantaa Man]

I can't afford a bloody Mac, much as I'd like one. No time to learn a new sequencer either.

Timo, that was excellent advice, thanks mate. I'll defo bear that in mind. Actually, my regular interface is an RME Multiface which has to use its own PCMCIA card on a lappy. For a cool €275

I've just got the opportunity to get my hands on a fairly decent Samsung for next to nothing. Dunno what I'll do with it though. Probably just use it for Power Point presentations at work..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORxFwBR4smE

[LivePsy]

How do you now which FW chipset is in a particular notebook computer? The sales guy sure as hell won't know

B

[Timo]

Originally Posted by LivePsy

How do you now which FW chipset is in a particular notebook computer? The sales guy sure as hell won't know

Yep, it's an absolute arse, and the sales guys certainly won't have a clue.

Several ways to find out.

1) Go to the laptop website and look at the software drivers download page, and see who the firewire- or express-card(sometimes still called 'cardbus')-controller chipset driver is made by. An example would be such as the Dell Vostro software download page [here]. For that example, click the chipset tree and you'll see Intel (the CPU chipset) and Ricoh (the firewire/express-card chipset) drivers.

2) If you have a test laptop available to look at, a very easy way to find out is to run a free system analyser program such as [Sisoft Sandra Lite] or [Everest Free] on the laptop itself and it will tell you. Takes about 15 seconds to analyse the system, and it will include the firewire/cardbus chipset info.

OR you can post on the [PC section] of the SoundOnSound forums to ask about various models. They're pretty on the ball regards the TI stuff.

OR you can get someone nice on any laptop forum sites (two good sites are www.NotebookForums.com and www.NotebookReview.com, but they are mainly gamers) to run one of the system analyser programs on their computers for you as a favour.

3) Email tech support for any laptop manufacturer and be really explicit about what info you need.

However, I contacted Dell loads of times, as each time I spoke to a different person (support personnel based in India) they didn't have a clue and gave me different answers. One said the firewire chipset was made by Dell, another told me the Core2(!) chipset was 32-bit only(!), a third said that "they knew the answer but can't tell me the information I need for security reasons, but I should be assured they used the best firewire components!". Another person was also told by the sales rep they do include TI chipset, and even gave a product number.

All of which are utter shite.

Dell use Ricoh or O2 micro.
Rock use VIA.
Apple were using TI but are (or have done already) phasing in Agere instead.
Asus use Ricoh in some models.
Acer use TI in some models.
Fujitsu use Ricoh or TI.
HP Compaq use Ricoh or TI.
Sony Vaios use TI in many models.

The fw chipset does vary between models/lines, though, so one model/line may use a different fw chipset to another model/line, even though they're made by the same laptop manufacturer. You'd need to check beforehand to make doubley sure.

Only reason I'm anal about it is that I currently use an external mixer and want to tightly integrate it with VST plugins in near realtime (whilst taking care regards phasing issues of course), and Matt mentioned he wanted to achieve low latencies too so thought I'd chip in in case he was involving firewire. Non-TI fw chipsets cannot reliably go below 512 samples (12ms) latency under load, whereas those with TI chipsets can often go as low as 64 samples (1.5ms @ 44.1KHz, or 0.7ms @ 96KHz), which is as good as you're going to get (in the realm of digital audio).

I'm not sure but I think even the older PCMCIA 'cardbus' slots (including the RME multiface, etc.) may do well to be made by TI too. I guess Matt could post on the [RME forum] or the SOS forums to see if cardbus is equally an issue. They're a knowledgable lot over there. "jschild" (Scott of www.ADKProAudio.com) who occasionally posts on the SOS forum is particularly experienced and respected in this field.