Ultranova - Got one! Here are my thoughts..

[namnibor]

@MBTC

Thought to let you know Novation released a second free sound pack of sounds from Supernova for Ultranova/Mininova and there will be a third free one later this year.
Here's the link and info about it: http://en.audiofanzine.com/synthesiz...ust+10%2C+2013

Conversely, can just go direct to Novation's website and download the 64 sounds.

[MBTC]

Thanks for the heads up!

You can listen to some of the sounds (both from the Supernova I and II packs, and some other novation stuff) here:

https://soundcloud.com/novationmusic

Good to see Novation making good on their promise of additional sounds, this synth has a lot of potential and the stock presets and early sound pack releases were not doing it justice.

[namnibor]

Thanks for that link. I currently do not have my Supernova 1 rack within a midi chain set-up but can tell you from listening to those demos, it comes pretty close, particularly at 3:44 with that lushly warm pad/string sound and again at 4:26 with the arp sound. I just received a no-computer required midi router to add to my set-up that may be 'old school' but it's simplicity makes it very utilitarian (Kawai MAV-, and this way without having to make unnecessary midi thru's or be unhooking/patching cables with a mirror and flashlight on rack, just move the slider to desired synth and only plugging of labeled cables have to do are the audio outs into the Scarlett 18i20.
Choose to keep the original Supernova 1 rack not only because of IMO the awesome sounds, but one heck of a poly arp that is not far from being a sequencer and love the very knobby interface.

[MBTC]

One thing I haven't actually heard is an A/B of the Supernova patch sets played on the Ultra versus the original. I've seen one guy (subjectively) state that his Supernova sounds warmer, but he said that based on the original patch banks of the Ultranova (which are horrible) and unscientific tests (the Supernova banks had not been released yet). I'd love to hear a valid (and properly conducted) test of same patches on both. So far I'm inclined to believe it's another case of "placebo effect" induced by all the lovely knobs on the Supernova

I see (or I should say hear) that a lot in the battle of hardware vs. software synths. A perception of warmth that perhaps exists when listening to the raw signal but gets lost by the time it's placed in a digital audio file and listened to on an MP3 player, over soundcloud etc. Seems a little like getting caught up on a requirement of "pure analog", then ultimately putting the music into a digital format Ironic to say the least.

I can believe the SN is capable of sounding better overall because it was 8-part multi-timbral I believe? (Thus could get some layered patch sounds that the UN could not) But what I'd be interested in is how it sounds in a direct comparison on same single patch. Supposedly these SN patch banks for the UN are direct ports, so it should be easy enough to do for those that have both synths -- hopefully a youtube video or similar will surface soon.

[Timo]

Does the Ultranova use the same algorithms for its filters and EGs and stuff as the Supernova, then?

[TweakHead]

Originally Posted by MBTC

One thing I haven't actually heard is an A/B of the Supernova patch sets played on the Ultra versus the original. I've seen one guy (subjectively) state that his Supernova sounds warmer, but he said that based on the original patch banks of the Ultranova (which are horrible) and unscientific tests (the Supernova banks had not been released yet). I'd love to hear a valid (and properly conducted) test of same patches on both. So far I'm inclined to believe it's another case of "placebo effect" induced by all the lovely knobs on the Supernova

I see (or I should say hear) that a lot in the battle of hardware vs. software synths. A perception of warmth that perhaps exists when listening to the raw signal but gets lost by the time it's placed in a digital audio file and listened to on an MP3 player, over soundcloud etc. Seems a little like getting caught up on a requirement of "pure analog", then ultimately putting the music into a digital format Ironic to say the least.

I can believe the SN is capable of sounding better overall because it was 8-part multi-timbral I believe? (Thus could get some layered patch sounds that the UN could not) But what I'd be interested in is how it sounds in a direct comparison on same single patch. Supposedly these SN patch banks for the UN are direct ports, so it should be easy enough to do for those that have both synths -- hopefully a youtube video or similar will surface soon.

I agree with you. But using external instruments you always add a stage into the mix, the pre amps on the soundcards are responsible - I think - for the extra warmth people claim to exist on hardware, even when we're talking VA tech. If you pay attention to what happens on the hip hop side of music, there's a similar controversy concerning the Akai MPC. No wonder you also have MPC analogue modeling on some famous samplers like Kontakt and Battery and stuff like that. If you look at the tech specs on those old machines, you usually had 10 bits (in depth) or something similar, and a lot of people claim the old sounds warmer and punchier. Same with the Nord Lead 1 vs 2, or the Virus C vs Ti. It's probably as simple as the later having better converters, more clean sound and definition while people have grown used to a more lo fi sound that they feel is edgier and more warm sounding, all a matter of habit.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Timo

Does the Ultranova use the same algorithms for its filters and EGs and stuff as the Supernova, then?

I think the general consensus is yes, although I don't think I've ever seen this in official writing from Novation.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

I agree with you. But using external instruments you always add a stage into the mix, the pre amps on the soundcards are responsible - I think - for the extra warmth people claim to exist on hardware, even when we're talking VA tech. If you pay attention to what happens on the hip hop side of music, there's a similar controversy concerning the Akai MPC. No wonder you also have MPC analogue modeling on some famous samplers like Kontakt and Battery and stuff like that. If you look at the tech specs on those old machines, you usually had 10 bits (in depth) or something similar, and a lot of people claim the old sounds warmer and punchier. Same with the Nord Lead 1 vs 2, or the Virus C vs Ti. It's probably as simple as the later having better converters, more clean sound and definition while people have grown used to a more lo fi sound that they feel is edgier and more warm sounding, all a matter of habit.

Sure, I don't doubt whether certain aspects of a given piece of hardware (pre amps alone can make a difference, as you pointed out). I was just saying that it's probably not going to matter much at the end of the day once it's in an MP3 on someone's iPod or whatever, thus its not really worthwhile to get too caught up on "pure analog warmth" or whatever, as it's only an inspirational effect on the ear that won't make it to the final track anyway.

[trance gate]

Originally Posted by Timo

Reason being, I checked out a few Ultranova audio demos and reviews on youtube and unfortunately I was disappointed with all of them. To me sounds like it has a kinda plasticky, digital, thin, phasey sound to it.

... the supersaw at 2:57 onwards on the Ultranova sounds horribly phasey and weak when dialing in the detune and hitting new keys (more specifically it resets the trig phase of all the multiple detuned saws at note-on each time, so you get a "peeow, peeow" sound every time you press a key as they all start in phase then detune away from each other, rather than starting them as free-running entities to begin with, regardless of detune amount) and I've noticed this undesirable artefact effect is common in other people's Ultranova demos too. My Korg Radias does the same thing and I hate it.

You are completely right Timo.

I have the ultranova and though it's a really nice synth, the supersaw on it sucks and has the peeow peeow thing you noticed. It's a pity.

I am about pushing the button for a King Korg, it would be nice to know if it has the same problem like the radias with the supersaw osc.

I don't notice it in the videos, for example in this one:



but I'll try to ask in korg forums.

cheers!

edit:
Love these supersaws from KK
https://soundcloud.com/korg/demo5-anthem-king

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by trance gate

You are completely right Timo.

I have the ultranova and though it's a really nice synth, the supersaw on it sucks and has the peeow peeow thing you noticed. It's a pity.

I am about pushing the button for a King Korg, it would be nice to know if it has the same problem like the radias with the supersaw osc.

I don't notice it in the videos, for example in this one:



but I'll try to ask in korg forums.

cheers!

Did you read my followup to Timo's question? You can set the oscillator phase to either Free, or a numeric value between 0-180. Set to Free either from the board itself or the VST to get rid of the peeow peeow sound.

I'm curious what you don't like about the supersaw on the UN, maybe I can help there too? If you didn't yet know about the osc phase setting I'm inclined to think you haven't explored it deeply enough yet. You have to on this synth to get the most from it. There are a couple of different ways to achieve supersaws on the UN, one uses up more voices (like the Virus) and one does not. Explore both methods and I think you'll find some good stuff.

Also be sure to get both Supernova soundsets -- they are better than the factory patches. The Daniel Fisher sounds are a nice showcase for its diversity but if it's trance sounds you seek, they are not good starting points.

The biggest shortcoming I find in the Ultranova is simply lack of available soundsets for it. You have to be committed to making your own sounds to get the most out of it.

But about the King Korg -- yes I think it has a nice sound too from what I've heard, been eyeballing that one for a while. Nice price point as well, even if twice the cost of a Ultranova.