Vocoder Use

[evergrain]

Originally Posted by annikk.exe

One of my favourite uses is to use drum sounds as the modulator. By carefully controlling the dynamics of the drum source, you can make a really nice organic-sounding stepped sequence. Personally I find this a much easier method to create this type of sound, and often produces better results.

-Annikk

nice one Annikk.. yeah, I was mad to try drums thru it, but my initial attempt was unsatisfactory. I think it might be the thing to be writing your drum loop while running through the Vocoder, rather than just taking an existing drum loop and running it thru.. which is what i did and didn't think much of. Have yet to get back and try construct the drums with Vocoder on.

You say your foray into vocoding has been MS2000 and Reason.. have u got a Virus too? How does it compare?

I am wondering if I'll ever get that 'classic' robot thru my Virus. I am pretty certain its more down to the carrier, as I'm getting closer when I change the carrier than when I change the Vocoder settings (but then I have the Vocoder at a pretty optimal setting I think)

Having said that, I'm starting to think the Virus Vocoder might have it's own 'classic' sound!! It's just not the traditional one... . but then I never really was one for tradition anyway!

[Nonikoff]

Well all above is actually true - Virus is very wrong tool to make vocoder effects THOUGH !!! I remember one track where I managed to get unique sound out of it - none of other soft or hard (I own SuperNova mk IIwhich is almost perfect in vocoding in my opinion) could help me to create such a sound. the trick is virus is too "SOLOUS" and has complex patches. and in case of vocoding you need simple carriers...

[evergrain]

Nonikoff - Simple carriers then yes? That's a helpful hint I think. Must try to make my carriers simpler. Strip away FX and strip down to one osc. That might get a bit closer. Sounds like a good idea.

Funny, but the 'basic' way of using the virus' Vocoder, with the carrier on the same channel (not the way I explained earlier in this post), would be closer to that idea, but I never got as close to a decent vocoder with that 'basic' way as I have by having the carrier on another channel. Maybe having filters is an advantage. But to get rid of the other processing and oscillators on the carrier. I'll give it a try...

[annikk.exe]

Carriers are tricky beasts to program. My suggestion is to make sure your carrier wave contains a broad range of frequencies. If you try to use a bass sound with the low pass filter turned way down, you are only going to hear bass-y frequencies. If you're trying to use your own voice as the modulator, you're generally going to find the output quite muddy and difficult to understand.

Try building a simple carrier sound with osc 1, 2, and the sub-osc. Set them to sawtooth or whatever. Put sub-osc at about 50% mix. Make sure your filter is opened all the way up. Apply some Hard Filter Saturation (the Edit menu on the filter section). Apply some Hard distortion in the effects section.

Set your amp envelope to A=0, D=0, S=max, R=0
Filter envelope doesn't really matter, just make sure that the Envelope Amount in the filter section is set to 0.

Ok great, so now we have a really horrible, abrasive, nasty sound - but it should hopefully contain a nice broad range of frequencies. Use this as a template for your carrier, then try experiment a bit with different changes :>


If you write a really nice vocoder carrier but the voice output is still quite hard to understand, try adding some Noise from the noise generator.
Generally, difficulty understanding the voice = some frequencies are poorly represented in your carrier wave.


On drums as a modulator source,
Try adding some extreme compression to the modulator signal before it enters the vocoder.
Also when writing a drum riff, I strongly suggest to not use loops, and to just dial in single-hit drums manually. Experiment with each different drum sound, figure out what it sounds like, then arrange the different sounds in your head into a riff. The best riffs for drum modulator imho are fairly simple..



I haven't used the Virus vocoder at all yet, to be honest with you =P I will give it a try at some point but apparently it's quite hard to get a good sound from it. I have to say I'm quite excited by the idea of things like using the input level (of the modulator) to modulate the cutoff of the carrier...

The MS2000's vocoder is 16 band. It's pretty good..
The vocoder is Reason is awesome. I found it very powerful and flexible.


-Annikk

[evergrain]

Originally Posted by annikk.exe

Carriers are tricky beasts to program....

-Annikk

Annikk, thanks very much for that input ... I will be giving all your suggestions a try, and now that you mention it, using the input follower with the cutoff, or other parameters would indeed be cool. Hadn't thought of that! ...
Have you got a Virus? If so, you certainly should give the vocoder a try. You sound like you know exactly what you're doing, so I'm guessing you don't actually have a virus, or you would have experimented with it.

Anyone else out there got a Virus TI ? I have been working my way around the C engine Virus, and getting good results now, but I recently called in to a mate who has the TI, and despite my best efforts, I couldn't get the thing working. Was using it in USB mode in Live. So many things are different.

No AUX out?? No Input Gain? (or input gain lev) USB vs VIR outs ??

Anyone using a TI have it working in USB mode with two channel vocoder mode (vocoder patch on one channel, carrier patch on a second ), or even for that matter in single channel mode? Would you mind running through the basic settings? Its SO different to virus C....

[stonevibe]

Never used a Virus as a vocoder as I just use my Jp-8080 which is easy to set up.

[evergrain]

Originally Posted by stonevibe

Never used a Virus as a vocoder as I just use my Jp-8080 which is easy to set up.

Terrible excuse all the same... do you not wonder how they compare? Just too lazy, even with the instructions in this thread. Tut-tut..

[annikk.exe]

I do have a TI, I've had it about 4 months so far but I've got a whole bunch of new gear at the same time. I've spent most of my time figuring out where abouts to put stuff, how to wire it up, etc. Also a bunch of the items I bought had something wrong with them, so I've been busy sorting that out, getting repairs/replacements, etc.

Basically I haven't looked at the vocoder yet :P I heard that it was nothing special so I've been more interested to use the other features of the Virus for now.
I'll give it a try sometime.. :>


-Annikk

[ShortBus]

Ive been using Ableton lives vocoder with the virus as a carrier and have been getting good results.40+bands

[flipside]

How nice wouldn't it be with a "VP330 mode" in the virus vocoder? I used one recently, and I was amazed at how "plug and play" it was even though it's really basic in what kind of voice it can produce. What it did it did really well! That said, I made a multisample of the entire VP330, so I'm gonna try and use that as the carrier in the virus vocoder.. Ho hum!

Alex