Some newbie Virus questions

[simonharris]

Essentially as I understand it, the Virus is a standalone self contained instrument that also has a built in USB audio interface. There is also plug in CONTROL software for the DAW. So there are these 3 separate things working together, the instrument, the built in audio interface and the plug in that controls the synth remotely but when it comes down to it, the Virus is just like any standalone synth, it just also comes with it's own computer audio interface and remote control software that works as a plug in. Therefore you get latency just like plugging any other instrument into a soundcard and using your DAW to record it. This is not really total integration is it? a software synth has more total integration because it fully operates in the same environment as the DAW, in fact a software synth plug in is TOAL integration. Am I going wrong anywhere. The virus is awesome but it is a standalone instrument and the claim of total integration does not seem to be very accurate to me.

[PaPi]

It is definitely total integration with your DAW. Or else you'd need to plug audio cables into your interface's inputs to hear the Virus through your audio interface's outputs, like you do with every hardware synth (which, incidentally, you can still do, if you want...Some people swear by this system giving you more "warmth" because of the inherent analog distortion. Personally, I think it's poppycock... )

Essentially, when you're using your own audio interface and the Virus in TI mode (i.e. VST plugin and USB connection only), the Virus acts exactly like a softsynth. The only difference is that the bulk of the computing is done externally (by the Virus engine) and not by your computer. Meaning that the virus won't take much computing power, unlike some of the more complex plug-ins.

Audio latency depends on your audio interface (and how powerful your computer is) and it has nothing to do with the Virus. Yes, of course it can be argued that USB 1.1 isn't exactly the fastest protocol in the world, but the Virus won't need anything real fast because it doesn't use samples.

[simonharris]

With my softsynths like Sylenth and Gladiator I get 0% latency - NONE. This is because the audio is being generated in the same environment as the DAW, there is nothing being sent down any cable and back in again.

I understand that Virus has latency of around 18ms because it takes this long (or slightly more or less depending on a sound card) for the audio to reach the DAW via the USB cable.

Audio latency relates to external instruments.

Softsynths are INTERNAL instruments, so no latency.

Virus cannot behave exactly like a softsynth, this is impossible because the audio comes from outside and this introduces latency.

[hvyen]

Thanks for the hint!
The most time I'm using Ableton Live. I've never seen the possibilty to choose more than one asio driver. I've heard that it should be possible in other sequencer programs or is it possible in Live, too?
At the moment I have to work, but later I'll try the ASIO4ALL drivers with my Virus TI.

[PaPi]

Originally Posted by simonharris

Softsynths are INTERNAL instruments, so no latency.

Not true. There is no audio interface with zero latency.

[simonharris]

The latency is usually on the audio input. So a live instrument arriving at the DAW is maybe 8-20ms delayed behind the existing audio/metronome that is already in the DAW. There are settings in the DAW to delay all output to compensate for the incoming delayed audio latency but this only delays everything to match. What I referred to as having no latency (or at least NONE whatever that I could detect, and I am pretty good at detecting delays and out of sync after being an audio engineer for over 30 years) is the audio that is already inside the DAW and is not coming in from the outside, hence my software synths have no detectable latency, I can rapidly hit the keys on my midi keyboard, the midi signal is instant and plays the nots instantly with no delay on the software synths. Also, I have NI Maschine, this is effectively midi pad triggering drum sounds that are already in the DAW - No latency - no audio coming in from the outside via USB. Latency delay happens on incoming AUDIO, the time it takes for the signal to be processed by the computer and the software, it arrives slightly later than the audio that is already in the computer hence the delay. No incoming audio, no delay.

[hvyen]

I've tested the ASIO4ALL drivers. At 128 Samples I get a latency with 6ms.
At 64 Samples I get 3,4ms, but sometimes cracks.

[simonharris]

Thanks! I will probably still buy the Virus because it's always possible to set it up to monitor live without going through the DAW during recording. The only question I have now is whether the Virus presets are as good for dance/trance as the softsynths I am currently using like Sylenth . . . .

[Abnorm]

the presets are good, though they demand some tweaking to get what you want, but beeing a virus user (TI, anyway), I`ve learned much just by tweaking and taking things apart

[simonharris]

Trouble is . . . . no time to reinvent the wheel, life is too short, so many great preset libraries are out there and either Virus also has great patches or it doesn't. When you have whole songs to produce and arrange it isn't practical to have to build and tweak every time you want a sound. As an example consider classic sounds like the Roland 909, 808 ect - the same sounds used in thousands of songs and everybody loved them, there are lots of fanboys who say you have to create every sound but it's just not practical when you have songs to produce and finish, great preset patches are important and do you think Virus has them or would I find 90% of them unusable as they are for dance/trance or am I best avoiding Virus and sticking with Sylenth which already has hundreds of great ones and Gladiator which I just demoed and literally found every sound was awesome. Everyone says Virus is the best but is the patch library it's weak point? Many Thanks!