The musicians are almost extinct

[Monobeat]

I feel bad about owning synthesizers now.

[spindlenine]

I think it goes without saying that the proliferation of computer-based music tools and loop-based platforms has seriously lowered the barrier to entry for regular old people (like me) to make "music." On the whole, I think this is a Good Thing (TM), but it does mean that there will be a lot more people out there who are able to record unfathomable noise at the same fidelity that professional musicians enjoy and claim that it is music.

But I'm certainly not judging; I have loads of pro-audio equipment I have collected over the years, and I have never even finished writing a single song. But after a long day at the office, I love coming home and twiddling knobs and making sounds. I may not be a fabulous musician or composer but I do know enough about synthesizers to enjoy what they let me do with sound, and I know enough about the piano to play melodies and tunes that allow me to enjoy the instruments.

Anecdotally, I actually got my TI because I always lose inspiration when the technology starts getting in the way of the music-making process (we've all been there...). The TI seems to integrate so seamlessly, which is awesome. I recently upgraded to Logic Express 8 as well, which has a much better UI than older versions, so I hope to find it less frustrating. This is sort of my "final stab" at making music a bit more serious of a hobby, so I'm hoping the tools have matured sufficiently to let me finally do that.

Just my $0.02.

- max

[Khazul]

Originally Posted by waxahachie

Sasha is a DJ not a musician, the rest I dont know them.

Well hes a DJ and producer. I have no idea what his musical skills are like, however as a producer he does work with other accomplished musicians and writers.

[teethofgold]

re: musician, dj, producer

musician - someone who plays a musical instrument (no creativity needed, just skill to play the song... think orchestra)

dj - someone who plays back pre-recorded music

producer - someone who coordinates musicians (or musical elements) to "produce" music

that's my definition... and these days a lot of people are a mix of the three... not to mention that there are composers, songwriters etc... but they don't really apply to electronic music as much.

regarding people jamming with arpeggiators and such... I tend to think of electronic dance music as modern folk music... which I see as music made by the people who enjoy it... so if people are happy playing (and enjoying) other people's music, then who cares?

regardless... I've only seen one person truly play techno music live on a keyboard... it was the dude from rabbit in the moon. he was hitting a pad to trigger a kick drum with one hand while playing keyboard riffs with the other... and it was awesome!

[Ceri JC]

Originally Posted by teethofgold

re: musician, dj, producer

musician - someone who plays a musical instrument (no creativity needed, just skill to play the song... think orchestra)

dj - someone who plays back pre-recorded music

producer - someone who coordinates musicians (or musical elements) to "produce" music

that's my definition... and these days a lot of people are a mix of the three... not to mention that there are composers, songwriters etc... but they don't really apply to electronic music as much.

Indeed, what would you say Squarepusher is when he alternating between playing his bass guitar and controlling a drum machine in time to someone else's record which he is playing on a turntable?

Out of interest, where would you put turntabilists in the definition; there are some, particularly those in groups who make what are undeniably musically speaking, whole new (albeit sample based) tracks where you would really struggle to recognise the source of a single sample; I'm talking about tracks where nothing more than single notes/drum hits are used. One person scratching a HH and another doing a kick drum to provide the drums, someone else playing and constantly re-pitching a single bass note to provide the bassline etc. Accurately repitching, re-ordering, and gating and trimming samples in real times on a turntable is certainly more "musical" in terms of playing an instrument (and requires more skill to do it well) than doing it in a step sequencer on a synth.

On a related note, the main reason I'm currently re-learning to play the violin is to finally record a version of a track I wrote a few years back (for 3 synthetic violin parts) on 'proper' electric violins, exactly as I want it. Would I bother if I had free access to 3 professional violinists I could communicate with effectively enough to get it exactly as I wanted? Probably not; I enjoy the 'production' side more and am better at it. Criticising people for this is akin to saying an architect is in some way inferior to a builder because the latter actually makes the building. I'd say they both play their part.

[Juho L]

From my experience the lack of musicianship in most cases manifests itself in a form of copying. A lack of musical skill, or in some cases talent, is not actually an obstacle; It's more like a drag on the process. This is how we get taste and smell free electronic music that you forget right after you have heard it. It's kinda shame that most electronic music producers have never actually bothered to study even simple basics of music theory. Their whole thing is an akward game of trial and error. Although a music theory is good slave but, like many other things, extremely lousy master. Even simple knowledge of music theory improves the composing capabilities greatly making finding "the own sound" a hell lot of easier.

Although there have been cases in which the lack of musicianship has created something really wacky. "I have no idea what I'm doing" can sometimes turn out to be something insanely innovative that "a traditional" musician would have hard time to come up with. It's usually very experimental, but mostly fun!

What I think the most common "mistake" done by electronic music producers is that they don't know the capabilities of their synths. They lack the interest in experimenting with sound design and synthesis. It's mostly that super saw crap. What makes electronic music in somewhat unique is that the possibilities in sounds and soundscaping is immense! Take advantage of it, damn it!

What comes to jamming... Well, it's like anything else in the world: If you like it and you don't harm anyone doing it, then why the hell not. Go ahead.

[Ceri JC]

Originally Posted by Juho L

What I think the most common "mistake" done by electronic music producers is that they don't know the capabilities of their synths. They lack the interest in experimenting with sound design and synthesis. It's mostly that super saw crap. What makes electronic music in somewhat unique is that the possibilities in sounds and soundscaping is immense! Take advantage of it, damn it!

Oh yes. It's amazing how many people can't do the basics of synthesis correctly. They tweak some patches in absynth/massive and it sounds good, but the don't really understand what they've done. Harmless enough in itself, but it's annoying when they then start making ill-informed comments about synth x's capabilities because they weren't able to get something great out of it in 5 minutes (and of course, someone else then reads this and takes it as gospel). I made an ambient track a few years back in Reason 1.0 that used nothing other than one instance of the (admittedly rather basic) 'Subtractor' synth and the standard (again v. basic) Reason FX units. I didn't reveal how I'd made the track. One individual who only days earlier had been saying how rubbish Subtractor was and how all Reason tracks sounded alike and were too thin, liked it and confidently said that he "could tell" the track was made with a few Absynth patches* and a real sample of someone snoring.

*so by definition, couldn't have been done in Reason.

[teethofgold]

re:ceri

squarepusher is an excellent example... though he is mostly a musician and producer. I didn't notice him using a turntable when I saw him live.

turntablists are also good examples of musicians as they require specific skills in real-time to play their music. I saw a video where dj swamp played "little bunny foo foo" using a record with a sine tone. he used the pitch slider on the turntable and lifted the needle up and down on the record.

re:juho

I agree that people making electronic music should learn the basics of music theory... especially the basics of chord progression. they should also...

read the "yamaha sound reinforcement handbook" - this is the best book on the basics of sound and electricity that I have seen

read the nord modular users guide - the manual for the original nord modular has excellent sections on the basics of synthesis and how to make the different synth components work together. the knowledge applies to any synth, not just the nord.

I personally never use preset synth sounds. I will use some sound effects library samples... and I use the akoustik piano plug-in... but I am huge into designing my own sounds from scratch. I'm certainly not the best sound designer... and some of the sounds may not be that great... but the good sounds that I make myself make me feel like a proud daddy!

[waxahachie]

Originally Posted by teethofgold

re: musician, dj, producer

musician - someone who plays a musical instrument (no creativity needed, just skill to play the song... think orchestra)

dj - someone who plays back pre-recorded music

producer - someone who coordinates musicians (or musical elements) to "produce" music

that's my definition... and these days a lot of people are a mix of the three... not to mention that there are composers, songwriters etc... but they don't really apply to electronic music as much.

regarding people jamming with arpeggiators and such... I tend to think of electronic dance music as modern folk music... which I see as music made by the people who enjoy it... so if people are happy playing (and enjoying) other people's music, then who cares?

regardless... I've only seen one person truly play techno music live on a keyboard... it was the dude from rabbit in the moon. he was hitting a pad to trigger a kick drum with one hand while playing keyboard riffs with the other... and it was awesome!

Agree with your definition.

Disagree about "electronic dance music as modern folk music".

Disagree about only one person play electronic music, the electronic/techno/dance belongs to late 70's until today actually still very popular and loved especially in Europe.

Disagree about players the list of professional musicians is endless like: Giorgio Moroder, Gino Soccio, Bobbie Orlando, Emerson and Lake and Palmer, Yazoo, Erasure, Labouche, New Order, Pet Shop Boys, Herbie Hancok, Tomas Dolby, Stevie Wonder, Jean Michell Jarre, etc, etc, etc endless number of real players on the 70's, 80's and 90's, even today.
What happens is the technologie and factories can produce today electronics to low cost and is accesible to too much people even a $3000 synthesizer still accessible comparated with the early electronic music age and credit cards helps too.
I love electronic music like I love Classic music, Jazz, Rock, Salsa Latino even Rock like Mettalica or Rolling Stones, the music is good in every field excempt reggaeton of course.

[Juho L]

Yay! Props for mentioning ELP there!

Saying that electronic music is modern folk music is a crime. When electronic is folk music then rock is definetly classical music. Hoho.

I think people always put their hands on shit when starting to evaluate musicians by the genre or methods of making music. I think the combination of skill and creativity is the thing that makes a musician good or bad. And of course it's very difficult to compare a technically skilled but non-creative player, such as slave trained classical pianist, to a creative but technically inferior bub.

When you think of it, why to rank musicians or genres in the first place? A good music is good music regardless of the musician(s) behind it. It's really simple thing actually.

The most debatable issue actually is what is musicianship. Are the sequencer jammers musicians? Does banging two coconut shells together make one a musician or just a plain horse rider? Well, to be frank, one shouldn't give a shit - It makes life a bit easier. Hoho. When person A says that person B is definetly a musician, well maybe the person B is then. A musician in a terms of profession? Most likely not. But in a general meaning? Definetly yes.