Namm 2013

[namnibor]

The out of this world Izotope IRIS vst or can be ran as a standalone, is like the first (1980ish) CMI Fairlight Instrument, which then cost over $10,000. usd....look how far technology has come since and affordable as well. (affordable is a rather subjective/objective term though).

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by namnibor

Does this imply that Ableton Live works better on a Mac than a PC or same expectations for performance?
Does anyone have any experience with PreSonus Studio One Artist DAW? I ask because a new audio interface am considering, whether usb or firewire, PreSonus includes full copy of Studio One Artist.

What I'm trying to figure out, as I re-do my music setup from the ground up (well, as much from the ground up as needed) is if there is truly an advantage to one over the other. I've mentioned how I don't like Apple's lack of commitment to cutting edge desktops (important for music due to thermal issues of high performing CPUs, and that's not gonna change IMO).

However at some point I want to get back into hardware. I still want to get a Virus TI2 again despite lack of innovation, if I can get it to work properly and consistently with regard to the integration over USB. If I can't accomplish that, there is really no compelling reason to focus on the Virus over other hardware toys, which is fine too.

But, if I end up focusing on other hardware toys, I'm gravitating toward the Apollo quad as an interface, as it seems advantageous there (but it's not cheap at $2500). Have you guys read the reviews from folks that have one? Most say single most important piece of hardware they own. If I can't get the TI portion of Virus working to my liking, I might as well just assemble my hardware setup from various synths that need little more than MIDI and audio outs to the Apollo. The Apollo DSP + plugins would solve one of the reasons for the Virus in the first place, to offload CPU processing somewhere else and supposedly provide fantastic sound for whatever vintage gear I decide to pick up on ebay and feed into it.

But remember all that is a backup plan. I much prefer the idea of being able to properly integrate the VC software with my DAW and be able to play into it relatively latency free, but it seems there is no universal agreement here on which DAW or even Mac or PC. I personally run a mean PC but I had major problems with the Virus and FLStudio. At that time feedingear and maybe others were having what was presented as perfect luck with Cubase on PC, but more recently he says Cubase on PC had driver problems and he went Mac but is disappointed with the choice. Berni is a Mac user and seems to have had experiences similar to mine. A while back there was a thread where it seemed like the majority of folks with Cubase on Win7-64 were having good luck. Other's have just concluded that Access is full of shit and due for a class action lawsuit over promises broken.

All I want to know is which DAW, and Mac or PC? Where is the TI portion of Virus proven to work? And if the answer is that they're all a gamble, even that info helps me plan my setup. I really don't mind to learn an entirely new DAW from the ground up even if it takes months to achieve full productivity, its only a hobby for me. Investing heavily in Logic is really scary considering Apple's history, but I'm open to that, Cubase, Live, Sonar whatever needs to be done.

But is there even an answer or consensus to this?

[feedingear]

Should clarify MBTC - the driver issues were with a PC laptop, and conflicts with the nvidia GPU with ASIO drivers - nothing to do with the TI. I had pops and clicks and bad stuttering with both my MOTU and Traktor S4 as sound cards.

I'm not disappointed with the Mac in the slightest - its just you pay through the nose for stability. But crashing on stage is not something I could risk.

[Berni]

I think the general consensus is use a PC & Cubase. Having said that I have found the VST version works pretty good right now in most VST host's, mac or pc. I would avoid the AU & RTAS versions like the plague. It's still a crap shoot though & a ball ache to get running no matter what you choose.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by feedingear

Should clarify MBTC - the driver issues were with a PC laptop, and conflicts with the nvidia GPU with ASIO drivers - nothing to do with the TI. I had pops and clicks and bad stuttering with both my MOTU and Traktor S4 as sound cards.

I'm not disappointed with the Mac in the slightest - its just you pay through the nose for stability. But crashing on stage is not something I could risk.

I've seen some weird audio conflicts on my PC, but trying to wrap my brain around what would cause a conflict between GPU and ASIO drivers.. There was a time with PCs where we had to deal with one card wanting a specific interrupt request or something but those days disappeared a long time ago. Anything you can describe is appreciated.

My Mac Mini for whatever reason, "sounds better" with same VST synths (meaning headphones plugged into the Mac audio vs plugged into the speaker headphone port on the PC) but there are too many variables there (specifically the sound card, settings of the driver, and the speakers themselves on the PC, the port etc) that I did not come to any conclusions there. I will say the novation KB pressure modulation seems to just work in a way thats more musical in Logic on the Mac, and feels more like a standalone hardware synth in that regard, but that's really talking DAW behavior out of the box (I think FLS doesnt pick this up until you map it for whatever reason).

But if you load a midi file into DAWs on either, using same synth (Zebra or Dune for example) and output to MP3 of course the end result is identical on either.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

I think the general consensus is use a PC & Cubase. Having said that I have found the VST version works pretty good right now in most VST host's, mac or pc. I would avoid the AU & RTAS versions like the plague. It's still a crap shoot though & a ball ache to get running no matter what you choose.

I was leaning heavily toward PC+Cubase for the long-term. Once about 6-7 years ago when I mentioned wanting peace of mind in the longevity of my DAW (meaning the DAW becomes an instrument in itself to me, and the less time I have to spend re-learning new ones the better my workflow becomes).... someone said just go Cubase if you want peace of mind. Maybe that's what I should do, after all they are the creator of the VST standard.

But I'm always keeping an eye and ear open for real-world experiences with the Virus, and it seems to be like you said with any software from Access, a crap shoot no matter what you choose. I've recently considered just focusing on maybe getting an Apollo as the centerpiece, then buying used gear on the cheap (older Viruses like the C for example), not even worrying too much about trying to get VirusControl or similar working properly or even USB at all. I'd love to pick up something like the KingKorg or Prophet12, and forgetting about getting the Virus software working properly would help with that end goal.

I will add one interesting piece of info. I recently noticed on one of my PCs, I had intermittent results with some things that seemed to want full speed USB. For example a portable GPS and also a radar detector that gets updated with data from a central server. Over time I realized that the combination of cable and port I was using was making the difference in being able to update both devices in a matter of minutes versus half a day. So, to try to eliminate various USB 2 hurdles I picked up a USB 3 card and dropped it in. They both update instantaneously now. I'm tempted to pick up another Virus and see how my USB experience compares to when I had the Ti2 Desktop before, yet make sure it is plugged into the dedicated USB3 card.... could be part of my hassles were due to that.

[TweakHead]

I think Apple's got the best laptops out there, but not so much the desktops. Stability on the Mac is due to having a Unix foundation, the system is pretty much closed (just like a playstation) so there's probably no issues with drivers, all of that and viruses (the nasty ones) is a thing you don't have to worry about. Also, they don't load as many shit on startup as a windows computer would - if you're not carefull, of course.

But things have been changing a lot, and windows seven has got tons better. So I guess you should have a dedicate usb buffer for the Virus, even though there's more connections there, you need to check it they're sharing bandwidth, as plenty of times that's the case. And have your stuff connected elsewhere - that probably helps a lot on the issues people usually report. I'm saying this and I don't even own one, but it makes a lot of sense.

I think one of the Virus TI2 advantages, rather then having 16 channels playing at once, is the versatility of it - and just the fact that it stores the patches you make on a project, so as to recall them when needed or to use some inside-the-daw automation seems a great advantage over the C line. I don't think of it as a means for saving CPU, like you would with the Apollo... Of course having a software synth that sounds (nearly) as good, like the Diva will have your PC claiming for mercy with just a few instances of it - if you're running the divine settings, probably a lot faster then that even... But it seems it's very unlikely to make proper usage of the 16 channels and have them running in sync for preview or something, specially if you use complex patches - and who doesn't?

Most people I know that use the Universal Audio's plug-ins are really satisfied with it. But nowadays, I tend to avoid overloading the system in the first place. As I get projects that reach something like 180 tracks. So there's the need for compromising a lot, rendering stuff to audio and stuff like that. I sometimes even bounce the whole mix down, open another project, and build some stuff to mix in when I'm sure I want to use CPU intensive processing on some part. After it's done, I just add it to the mix. Logic's got the option for loading channels from other projects and all of that - a pretty good option!!! So I guess it also depends a lot on your workflow routines, being able to both improve the workflow and not get the system to struggle even with highly complex material.

If you buy a PC and take care of it, it takes more maintainance, just having to defrag the disk every once in a while and all, you'll probably be fine!

Cheers