Virus TI|2 keyboard - intro, 1st impression, and question

[cynep]

Hey everyone, I'm new here - it's my first post. I've lurked around for a while but decided to jump in and participate.

So, I'm on my 10th virus - TI2 keyboard. I've only had it for about a day and so far I got mixed feelings about it. I'll post follow-up impressions later, after I spend more time with it.

First, the good:
It definitely seems more powerfull than previous model. With original TI, I'd get pops, clicks and synth would choke at multis I'd force it to crunch out. TI 2 seems to take it much better - I can throw some pretty complex arrangements without much noticeable artifacts.

I also like the way sides are put together - wood/aluminum - very classy. I do miss the "inspired by Jupiter 8" LCD cover but I think I may be in a minority..... Over all, synth seems built very well and looks rather nice.

What blew me away, as little as it is, the "Laser Harp" patch. As a long-time lover of Elka Synthex, still unable to satisfy my lust with the real deal, I think this is as close as you can get to "that" sound without actually owning that classic. I spent better part of last night playing Randzevous and other Jarre material This alone made subsequent points less disapointing.



Which brings me to the bad...
First - at some point synth just started playing by itself without me even touching it - a problem I've seen with faulty Jupiter 8 and also original TI - I call it "ghost in the machine"

Very close behind - RED LEDs. I was so relieved when I switched from Virus C to TI as my primary synth. Staring at RED had me seeing spots and I thought I was done with it when I racked Virus C out of direct line of my sight. Well, here I am back to red. Thankfully LCD is still nice and crispy white but these red lights are annoying enough to put a dent on a whole experience. This is definitely one of the more disapointing changes.

Third - mushy keybed. Of all Virus keyboard products I owned, this one is my least favorite. I don't know why but it just feels spongy, springy and just... I don't know... CHEAP. I may need to mess around with curve settings but keybed itself fails to inspire and feels like a keyboard you're likely to encounter in a cheaper MIDI gear, not a near $3000 synth.

I've played better keys in cheaper synths (Yamaha AN1x or a still unsurpassed K5000s come to mind). I really enjoy having the extra real estate on the right side of the synth, so I could stick my NL3 within easy reach but key feel is just lousy. Don't get me wrong, the keys are not noisy or rough like DSI Prophet 08 but at the same time not up to par to what I'd expect in a top synth on the market. I may have to go to TI2 polar for those two reasons.

Overall, not as thrilled about it as I used to be.

Lastly - the question...
I'm still trying to figure out what exactly changed in TI2 to warrant trading away from original TI, aside from perhaps getting rid of the buggy hardware. It almost seems like TI was the "Vista" of the Access line and TI2 is supposed to be Windows 7 - e.g. a bug fix for buggy hardware. Does anyone have any insight as to what exactly is the difference between the two? I do see an extra LED on the filter section but that's about it.

[marc]

Originally Posted by cynep

First - at some point synth just started playing by itself without me even touching it - a problem I've seen with faulty Jupiter 8 and also original TI - I call it "ghost in the machine"

Very close behind - RED LEDs. I was so relieved when I switched from Virus C to TI as my primary synth. Staring at RED had me seeing spots and I thought I was done with it when I racked Virus C out of direct line of my sight. Well, here I am back to red. Thankfully LCD is still nice and crispy white but these red lights are annoying enough to put a dent on a whole experience. This is definitely one of the more disapointing changes.

Third - mushy keybed. Of all Virus keyboard products I owned, this one is my least favorite. I don't know why but it just feels spongy, springy and just... I don't know... CHEAP. I may need to mess around with curve settings but keybed itself fails to inspire and feels like a keyboard you're likely to encounter in a cheaper MIDI gear, not a near $3000 synth.

I've played better keys in cheaper synths (Yamaha AN1x or a still unsurpassed K5000s come to mind). I really enjoy having the extra real estate on the right side of the synth, so I could stick my NL3 within easy reach but key feel is just lousy. Don't get me wrong, the keys are not noisy or rough like DSI Prophet 08 but at the same time not up to par to what I'd expect in a top synth on the market. I may have to go to TI2 polar for those two reasons.

intersting post,

i have two questions for you:

- is it the color red that you dislike or the way the LEDs are?

- we use pretty much the best keyboard fatar builds. "pretty much" as in plastic keys. options are limited, fatar is pretty much the only source you can buy from when you're not prepared to build your own keyboards. on tradeshows we received mostly good comments about the keyboards used. can you try to explain in more detail what the actual problem is? "lousy" and "mushy" don't explain it well for me.

best, marc
access music

[marc]

Originally Posted by cynep

Does anyone have any insight as to what exactly is the difference between the two? I do see an extra LED on the filter section but that's about it.

there were mainly two reasons for making a TI2: provide 25% more voices at no extra cost and having the chance to toy around with the design (and weight). vista vs. w7 it is not since the software runs on the TI1 as well.

marc

[cynep]

Originally Posted by marc

intersting post,

i have two questions for you:

- is it the color red that you dislike or the way the LEDs are?

- we use pretty much the best keyboard fatar builds. "pretty much" as in plastic keys. options are limited, fatar is pretty much the only source you can buy from when you're not prepared to build your own keyboards. on tradeshows we received mostly good comments about the keyboards used. can you try to explain in more detail what the actual problem is? "lousy" and "mushy" don't explain it well for me.

best, marc
access music

Hi Marc,

First - as evidenced by my ownership history with Access products - I own had owned just about every make/model of your products since Virus A. I would be lying if I said that I wasn't impressed with every subsequent release of Virus line. However, Access has created some very big shoes to fill - even for itself. For true fans of the synths, there's hardly anything that comes close to it in terms of sheer power and sonic capability. Buuuut... (you were expecting "but", weren't you? )

It appears that as the product is becoming more powerful and mature (and more expensive) the expectations also grow. On LEDs - I may be alone in this but I find white LEDs easier on the eyes, especially if you spend 3 - 5 hours daily staring at them. That's why I prefer programming Virus C through SoundDiver, not the synth interface itself. Something about red LEDs (or red color itself) that makes my eyes see red spots for at least 20 - 30 minutes after I stopped looking at them (even for a short while) - could be my vision.

It may be a bit presumptuous of me to suggest - but it would be awesome to have an option to not just set the brightness of the LEDs but also the color. Tri-color LEDs are relatively cheap nowdays and having an option to pick a color that suits the user would have been a major "friggin cool" factor. Heck, even my 4 year old Dell XPS Gen 4 computer has BIOS that allow me to pick which case color I want (out of 7 possible combinations). Again, a minor detail but major "cool points".

Now, getting to keyboard. Here's what I'm basing my experience on, as far as keyboard goes.

I used Roland A-70 as my primary keyboard. Virus TI 2 kbd was intended as its replacement because of space issues and fact that it has empty area - very useful to keep synth like Virus C, Nord Lead 3 rack or keyboard/mouse close by. So, I was very excited about TI 2 kbd, only to find out that somehow the keybed feels of lesser quality. Let me try to explain:

On the way down, the keys feel like they stop too soon - almost as if the keybed is not deep enough and they should have little more travel. On the way up, the keys feel a bit too springy - resulting in what feels like some of the cheaper MIDI controllers I've tried. I guess I've been spoiled by Yamaha and Roland keybeds, even K5000s used Yamaha - Fatars just seem to be a hit or miss.

From virus line - I loved key feel in Virus kC, even TI MK1. In kC, I liked that black keys were rounded and narrower, as well as just had a very fast and expressive feel to them. But my absolute favorite virus keybed is in Polar. I'd actually place it on par, if not higher than my A-70. The keybed in TI2 just feels somewhat spongy and restrictive. Perhaps I haven't gotten used to it and need to mess around with velocity settings but the overall responsiveness of the keys just leave more to be desired. I guess this is the best I can explain it, hope it makes it little bit more clear.

And last but not least - bitch as I may, Marc, I still love Virus dearly... but I felt cheated with the original TI - a lot was promissed on paper but in reality it didn't live up to the expectations your marketing literature left us with. The pops and clicks made the synth unuseable in live set up, made working in arrangement very difficult because you had to get a take without artifacts, and you have no idea how embarassed I felt for Virus when I saw Thomas Dolby have a lock-up / crash issue with his Polar on stage, in a middle of a performance. As a Virus user I felt embarassed for him and even though he made joke of it, I saw how frustrated he was.

Thanks for actually taking interest in what your customers have to say - if nothing else, it shows that your mind is in a right place.

[marc]

Originally Posted by cynep

(you were expecting "but", weren't you? )

[...]

From virus line - I loved key feel in Virus kC, even TI MK1. In kC, I liked that black keys were rounded and narrower, as well as just had a very fast and expressive feel to them. But my absolute favorite virus keybed is in Polar. I'd actually place it on par, if not higher than my A-70. The keybed in TI2 just feels somewhat spongy and restrictive. Perhaps I haven't gotten used to it and need to mess around with velocity settings but the overall responsiveness of the keys just leave more to be desired. I guess this is the best I can explain it, hope it makes it little bit more clear.

And last but not least - bitch as I may, Marc, I still love Virus dearly... but I felt cheated with the original TI - a lot was promissed on paper but in reality it didn't live up to the expectations your marketing literature left us with. The pops and clicks made the synth unuseable in live set up, made working in arrangement very difficult because you had to get a take without artifacts, and you have no idea how embarassed I felt for Virus when I saw Thomas Dolby have a lock-up / crash issue with his Polar on stage, in a middle of a performance. As a Virus user I felt embarassed for him and even though he made joke of it, I saw how frustrated he was.

hi,

no worries, you're not bitching at all and the "but" statements are more interesting for me anyway

the polar keybed is cheaper than the one of the TI keyboard. the one used in the TI1 keyboard is actually the same like in the TI2 kb, so i wonder if you received a unit with a faulty keybed. maybe you will have a chance to verify this, though i kind of doubt it.

i'm sorry that you felt cheated with the TI1. i guess we will never be able to overcome the problem of scalability and varying voice count. what i want to say is: as long as the sounds programmed are getting more and more expensive as in CPU consumption, there will always be the problem of expensive sounds. i cannot say that i have the clicks and pops problems reported on this forum but i guess my arrangements are more sparse than others.

as for thomas dolby, i felt sorry for him when i was told that his TI crashed on stage. not because he's a celeb but because the last thing you want live is a piece of equipment killing your performance. nowadays i personally consider this to be a risk which i just have to take, independently of what i use. a guitar player can break a string, a drummer can break a stick, i saw Underworld crashing their notebooks years ago and to cut a long story short - this is just the way it is when you take the risk of doing a non playback show. nevertheless we will do everything in our power to avoid crashes of course.

best, marc

[gtrance]

Originally Posted by cynep

I'm still trying to figure out what exactly changed in TI2 to warrant trading away from original TI, aside from perhaps getting rid of the buggy hardware. It almost seems like TI was the "Vista" of the Access line and TI2 is supposed to be Windows 7 - e.g. a bug fix for buggy hardware. Does anyone have any insight as to what exactly is the difference between the two? I do see an extra LED on the filter section but that's about it.

I personally dont think the TI2 is supposed to warrant an upgrade from an original TI. They are essentially the exact same synth with the same sound engine and same feature set. The added processiong power is useful but certainly not worth the money for a new TI2 if you own an existing TI.

I know there'll be some peope who feel they always need the latest gear, regardless of what they already have and its these kind of people who will upgrade their TI to a TI2.

For me, and anyone else with a little more common sense, the TI2 is best left to new customers who don't own an existing TI...

[annikk.exe]

On the keyboard, I like it for exactly the same reasons that you give for hating it.
I like the fact that it feels a bit springy down the bottom, it makes it easier to judge how much aftertouch one is putting onto a note. To me the keys feel sturdy and weighted just right to suit me.

I haven't owned many keyboards but it sure does blow my Korg MS2000 out the water, and all the various cheap midi controllers I've had over the years.


-Annikk

[Alakhai]

I think the keyboard is alright. I'm a classical trained player and I dislike the "synth action" keyboard...my master keyboard (cme uf80) has a good touch&response, far better than any synth I ever had or tried, but it's more than 24 Kilos without the case. gigging with it it's like using a tank instead of a car because "it holds the road better". the Virus has a good and light keyboard. as good as it can be if it has to weigh in 15 Kg

or maybe i'm the only one worrying about weight (no roadies, a master keyboard and 2 keyboard synths, mixer and stands...around 85 Kg )

[davidvector]

I guess I've been spoiled by Yamaha and Roland keybeds, even K5000s used Yamaha - Fatars just seem to be a hit or miss.

Are you referring to the Kawai K5000? I remember reading more than once that the K5000 used a Fatar-made keybed similar to (if not the same as) the keybeds in the Novation Supernova II, Emu E-Synth/E4K and Virus KC (I don't know if the TI uses the same keybed model as the KC). I have a Fatar keybed in my main non-hammer-action controller and love it - it has a light touch that doesn't require major force (I hate overly stiff-feeling keys like the CME UF5/6/7) but the keys still spring back quickly enough for fast repeated notes and soloing. Aftertouch is great too - much easier to press through gradations of aftertouch than on some other keybeds which seem to be virtually an on/off proposition. Obviously these things are down to individual tastes, though.

[shenme shenme]

I relatively recently purchased a TI-kb and I think the keyboard is glorious. I used to be a purist who wouldn't touch ANYthing non-hammer-weighted but after a few hours of playing with the Virus aftertouch I bought it that day and haven't looked back. Plus, it's quite fast and yet very predictable once you get used to it! The TI keys is now my go-to controller... which brings me a little more on-topic:

I love my TI, but I'm definitely not touching the TI2. It's just far, far too incremental of an upgrade. Reduced weight and increased polyphony sounds great, but how did everyone's primary complaints get overlooked? The SHIFT key must die! And why on Earth is the Virus so ROM-heavy!? Does anyone actually use all those ROM presets? Doesn't everyone else want to be able to construct more than one User ARP pattern per patch? Is there really an excuse, at this point, to have so many features software-only? How hard would it be to display the contours on the LCD? The Lock feature would be a really brilliant live tool if it didn't (afaik) require a PC...

...anyway. I'm not disappointed, because I've got a TI that I'm already really VERY happy with. I've been one of the lucky ones, and the software side is just aces for me. You guys are slaying the competition there. I'd love to see more features but I can't complain when you're the top of the VA game. I'm just confused. Did this really seem like the best way to spend R&D dollars? Maybe you guys are just working so hard on the software side you don't see the room for the hardware improvements, or maybe the price point is too challenging? Seems unlikely tho... plenty of synths compete at this price point as far as knobs and LCDs.

PS: 1st post!