virus and preamps?

[Wandering Kid]

hey, ive been looking around for some time about this but do you really need to operate a virus with a preamp? i ask because listening to some of hollowcell's audio demos - i just cant get my virus that loud and clean without boosting the volume in fruity's mixer (quite alot to get it up to the level of the rest of my tracks). which of course raises the noisefloor. bass is pretty blurry. and running my guitar through the virus is even worse for hiss and blurry bass.

so how many people use a preamp with their virus? have you tried using it without? does a preamp make a big difference to the quality of the audio output from the virus?

thanks for the input guys. i ask this question because i have a virus b on my desktop that doesnt get much use at all for a number reasons including the loudness issues and the blurriness of the sound.

and i just tried out the USB ultra focus demo just now and was totally blown away by it. same price as my virus b :O

[grs]

One quick tip with the virus b, make sure you are using unbalanced cables. If you make the mistake of plugging balanced cables into your virus b you will get 6 db softer signals.

The output of the virus b is unbalanced yet the socket on the board inside the virus has a TRS jack connecter. Tip, Ring and Sleeve. Yet the signal only travels via the Tip and Sleeve, the Ring is 'Open'. So when you plug a ballanced cable into the virus and the other end into a balanced sound card input or balanced mixer input the end device sees the virus a balanced [ incorrectly due to the open ring ].

I made this mistake once because I thought my AD converter would just detect it as unbalanced and I would benifit from the higher quality cable etc. Wrong indeed.

This is a design flaw, really the Ring and sleeve should be shorted together.

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Other than that, just make sure each patch you are using is turned up to at least 100 and if in multi mode look at the multi patch volume aswell.
There is enough volume or juice in the virus outs to clip a -10db [consumer] input and enough to fill up a +4db [ pro ] input, but the virus outs will clip before the input of a +4db device.

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I say only use a pre-amp if it's really good, and you like the sound coloration. Other than that Directly in is ok.

[Hollowcell]

Originally Posted by Wandering Kid

i ask because listening to some of hollowcell's audio demos - i just cant get my virus that loud and clean without boosting the volume in fruity's mixer (quite alot to get it up to the level of the rest of my tracks).

Which demos are you talking about WK, Tracks on Electromancer, or the patch demos on Soundclick?

If you let me know which ones, I can let you know what I did.

[jasedee]

Check on your soundcard inputs if you have the option of software switching from +4 to -10

[Wandering Kid]

to hollowcell, both really although your hardware demos on soundclick sound very clean and very pronounced.

to jasedee and grs - i have an m-audio delta 1010 with the switches on the back set to their out position (-10dB). pushing them in (+4dB) makes the signal louder but the noise floor increases when i do this - its just about visible on a spectrum analyser and you can hear the LFO squeeling away in the background when you crank it up REALLY loud. i am using only unbalanced cables and the system is completely unbalanced.

i take it you guys operate without preamps then?

[Hollowcell]

Most of the time I use the Virus without pre-amps, but sometimes I'll run my gear through a valve - none of the VC only demos on soundclick are run through the valve though.

The only outboard FX used were at mastering the mastering stage on those VC demos. From memory I just used a limiter. As long as there is a chunky enough wave before limiting, noise won't increase.

Which brings me to this point.....

Basicly, once you have set your sound card up properly, make sure when you record you are getting a wave that is as big as it can be without clipping. If the volume of the initail recording is too low, then you will get noise once you beef up the sound later.

[Wandering Kid]

well i made a virus trance lead and posted it in the sound design forum. on the right channel its peaking about -0.2dB in soundforge. it cant go any higher with more post processing (ill try a limiter on it after this post and see what'll happen). that virus lead is alot quieter than the stuff i normally put out (cave of orchids for example which comes on about twice and loud and isnt clipping in soundforge or the master channel in fl studio)

[jasedee]

You could try running your Virus outputs through a couple of DI's???

And yes, you are correct, I dont run my virus into a preamp, cos it is just not neccessary if you have things set up properly in your studio. I can either run the Virus direct into my soundcard inputs at -10, or I can run the Virus into a stereo line level channel on my mixer, and engage it's -10 button

A preamp is not neccessary, inputs on your soundcard that are able to switch between -10 & +4 are....

[grs]

Originally Posted by Wandering Kid

well i made a virus trance lead and posted it in the sound design forum. on the right channel its peaking about -0.2dB in soundforge. it cant go any higher with more post processing (ill try a limiter on it after this post and see what'll happen). that virus lead is alot quieter than the stuff i normally put out (cave of orchids for example which comes on about twice and loud and isnt clipping in soundforge or the master channel in fl studio)

How can you get a signal twice as loud as one that hits -0.2dB?

[jasedee]

Originally Posted by grs

How can you get a signal twice as loud as one that hits -0.2dB?

It could be 0.1?