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General discussion about Access Virus Discussion about Virus A, B, C and TI.

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  #1  
Old 08.02.2013, 11:49 PM
Smart Guy Smart Guy is offline
Coming down with a bug...
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Join Date: 30.11.2010
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Default I'm up against the proverbial WALL

This is quite a saga, but I need to tell this community of musicians and producers whom love the Virus TI as much as I do a story that leaves me completely deflated.

About 2.5 years ago I purchased a used 61 key Virus TI, (looks just like the synthesizer in the top right corner of this forum page.) At first I was using it modestly; loading in presets and playing the synth "live" to record with. As time progressed so did my abilities. I started to take advantage of the synths power, and capabilities. Realizing the potential of having Ableton or Logic Pro send automation envelopes to the many different parameters that you can automate through the "Virus Control" interface software / plug in was awesome. So I begin making more complex sequences with more automation and that's when all the trouble started. Its a familiar complaint in the (Access Synth) forums. The "ticking" sounds, the loud digital non-syncing screeches, and buzzes and ultimately the actual mother board and processors in the synth just locking up, (when this happen all the lights on the synth just freeze.)

So, I go around the cycle of troubleshooting with Jorg Hutner, in Germany at Accesses headquarters. We do the whole nine: try every combination of usable USB ports, different USB cables, we tried stripping the projects down to ONLY the synth and seeing how that worked. New project with new MIDI, also tried using the Virus' built-in A/D soundcard. We tried it all, and the same problems. I have an iMac, and a Macbook Pro. Both have i7 processors in them. So, Jorg finally had ne send him a "stripped down" version of the project to him, so as he could try it with his system and his TI2 desktop. When he got back to me he he reported that he didn't have the same issues that I was having. He did mention tha the patch I was using was rather "dense" voice wise. That each MIDI note is triggering up to 16 voices because of my patch. Ok, so I just INITIALIZED a patch. 2 saws and no bells and whistles OSC wise. Same problem: soon as the timeline hits the automation envelopes: NO GO.
So Jorg concludes that my synth has a hardware issue. THat the DSPs are fouling and it needs the motherboard swapped. So, Access takes care of me and swaps the motherboard out under warranty. Pretty cool company.

So, I get the synth back from the approved repair vendor in my city. I was stoked. Couldn't wait to crank her up and try some of these abandon projects.
I get the synth connected, (the synth with the newly swapped mother board!), and open up a project that was crashing the synth. I hit play and voila, all 8 cylinders firing. I'm watch ing the "Virus Control" plugin's visual interface showing the filters and envelopes slowly opening, and I was like YES! And then I stop the timeline with my spacebar, click into another part of the track and WHAMMO, SAME FRIGGEN DEAL. The synth makes this horrendous sound, screeches, and all the lights lock up.

Now what?

I was destroyed. I know its the USB because even when I route the audio NOT through the USB, but through the analog channels, (having opened up separate audio tracks in Ableton), the same screeching sound is conveyed THROUGH the Virus' host track in Ableton.

So - Am I really at a wall? Is it true, what many people say, that the Virus Control USB system is truly dodgy, and I'm going to have to use analog audio and MIDI CC communication between the DAW and the synth? I'm ready to hear anything. Any suggestions that anybody wants to toss my way I can't wait to hear.

Very frustrated producer here. Thanks to all who read this, Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ableton_audio.jpg (23.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg ableton_cpu.jpg (22.9 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg ableton_MIDI.jpg (24.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg iMac_USB.jpg (26.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg logic_audio_general.jpg (16.3 KB, 4 views)
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  #2  
Old 09.02.2013, 06:38 AM
MBTC MBTC is offline
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Join Date: 16.04.2010
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Just some background -- I'm currently in the process of literally re-doing my hobby studio from the ground up. I don't currently own a Virus, but I did once and gave up and sent it back. I'm close to pulling the trigger on another one if it makes sense, but the current state of USB makes me nervous. I'm a PC guy first and a Mac guy second. I didn't have a Mac when I first tried the Ti2. After I sent the unit back, I realized there were some other devices I had (GPS and radar detector) that were also finicky about USB port.

One thing I have done differently since my encounter with the Virus is install a separate USB3 card into the PC that is becoming the backbone of my setup. I don't have a Virus at the moment to test whether it will solve the issues I had, but I can say that using one of the ports on the card with a known good cable unconditionally solved all other USB issues I was having on that PC. Now, I was going to suggest adding one of these cards, then I saw that you're dealing with an iMac and Macbook Pro and felt slightly gutted to even embark on that response. The Mac that I currently own is a higher end (i7) Mac Mini, and Logic Pro works beautifully on it with softsynths (like I said, never connected the Virus to it since I didnt have the mini back then), but that little aluminum lunchbox is never going to get a USB upgrade by my hands -- in fact it currently has a Thunderbolt port that's not even being used. One of these days I may get a chance to connect a Virus to it to see how it goes, but it sounds like your Apple hardware is just as recent so I don't think my results should be any better.

There have been a few observations I've made about consensus here from folks who have used the TI aspect of the Virus a lot more than myself. One of those is that lately, it seems that the Virus software has the best success rate with Cubase on Windows. Sucks to be the other 70% of folks who use a different DAW or a Mac, but that's the consensus. The other observation is that the folks who are still not off-put by the persnickety-ness of the integration seem to be willing to bounce down the output from the Virus, adjust for latency and whatnot. In other words I don't think softsynth-like workflow is commonplace.

Are you sure that every aspect of your environment (hardware platform, OS version, DAW type and version etc) mirrored Jorg's during your troubleshooting call with him? If not then it would be great to know what he used. It wouldn't surprise me if an Access employee has whittled down his setup to exclude anything that could possibly interfere with the Virus.... what's disturbing about Access as a company is that if they really have been able to achieve reliable integration, they have not been forthcoming with providing the details of the environments they've achieved it with. If nothing else they should be able to baseline the OS version and provide an image of Access setup materials that guarantees the same success, considering all things equal (same hardware, etc). I hold myself to that same standard with regard to the software I provide to my clients. To my knowledge Access has never even come close to stepping up to that level of accountability. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #3  
Old 12.02.2013, 03:12 PM
Barely Barely is offline
Definately caught something...
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Join Date: 21.12.2010
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Sorry to say that I haven't heard from any professional user that the whole Virus USB thing works. Look closely at all the "stars" who use Viruses. They never do that in USB mode live. It's either audio glitches, or LFO and ARP time glitches, or heavy latency. Hell, my TI2 doesn't even synch to DIN MIDI reliably. I resorted to sending Arps as midi notes to the DAW, quantize there and send the quantized midi notes back to the Ti2, recording analog audio back into the DAW if I need correct timing. But I got rid of the screeching sound by not using USB audio.
I had many discussions with the (very competent and friendly) Access support, Jörg Hüttner mostly, but there wasn't any real progress.
That aside, the TI is a great instrument
I love my virus for the sound, but for me it doesn't work as advertised. Access is only answering "can't be, it's not faulty at our test system" or "use another / no / three usb hubs". Fact is, what they attempt to do just doesn't work over usb reliably. It does sometimes, but not always.
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