Korg Re-Issue mini-MS20 Monosynth!!!!

[TweakHead]

True. But what I meant was digital modular synths that are capable of saving the patches for live performance, pretty much like Clavia has done with the Modular G1 and G2...

http://www.clavia.se/main.asp?tm=Pro...mm=Information

I think Native Instrument's Reaktor is the thing that comes closest to it, even though it's somewhat more challenging and has an even bigger learning curve, that one... But I think a new product on those lines would probably be successful and allow for the implementation of more features with updates, having sound design as its main focus... And perhaps performance features on the other side of it, to really add something cool to the equation. Digital creation of modular digital synths that would play live on hardware, I mean. For access to jump into the analogue modular world, would take a complete redefinition of their identity since there's never been anything analogue by Access and I doubt that they're thinking about making one. I think it's pretty much like Timo has said, their main focus as been on the TI for far to long, it's natural that it was, because they're still the only company implementing their hardware synth on the daw, which is a really distinct feature. No matter how much it takes to get it working properly, it's worthy of the investment, I think. And it's still called taking risks on my dictionary. There's a reason other developers haven't even tried it yet... But I think the concept behind the integration can be expanded with more hardware, pretty much in the same way that Universal Audio is making: there's the DSP power on the cards, but it serves many features, not just one... And I always thought this modular approach could be a good test for new features, while becoming the dream of really nerdy sound designers like myself. So that would be lovely and somehow within the scope of what I think Access's development is: which is designing really killer modules in code, for dsp use. Maybe it doesn't have to go all into the virus, there could be another parallel approach to that. But that's my opinion. A plug-in would also hit big, even though I agree they should keep the virus's code where it is, not taking risks of seeing it spread across the web with pirate copies. But something else, along the lines of waldorf's Largo, which isn't a Blofeld, but has some of it's features would be cool and provide them with some income for other stuff, I think.

[namnibor]

You are right and sorry for my brain immediately thinking "hardware". There's been enough people I have read elsewhere that were not very happy with Clavia dropping the virtual modular and that's something I admit know nothing about but have heard great audio examples from.
It seems though that it would be prudent to take advantage of higher bandwidth than USB 2 and use USB 3 or even Firewire 400/800 so there's no bottleneck that the often grumpy Ti owners talk about.That way the future would have an interface path that does not stifle creativity/added features. Then again, I am really hardcore hardware and call me old school but it is what it is. I am learning Reaper but soon may change audio interface and check-out the Studio One DAW that comes with it. However, the only thing the DAW provides for me is a super flexable sequencer/recorder as I do not use plug-ins, having outboard effects is just the way I work but then again have never done any mastering or use of compression and that too may be DAW duties.
Anyway, I think you suggested a cool direction for Access to go and to of course perhaps have hardware that integrates properly at such a deeply direct level such as Firewire or USB 3 where differeing DAW's would not matter so much. Then again, tend to dream big, I do!

[TweakHead]

Yeah, but it would be as much hardware as the Virus is, really. It would just allow you to edit the routing (instead of having a fixed one, even though it's rather flexible) to do, say, put the distortion before the filter section, or anything you can imagine. It's a way of combining the modules, and the limit for this is the amount of DSP available. The playing and editing of the sound, once this presets (they're really synths) are done, would be on the keyboard and with knob tweaking, and the sound comes from audio, just like the Virus.

But I really don't worry much about the difference between hardware and software when it comes to digital synths. In a way, the Virus is a plug-in with a dedicated hardware. And these days, along with the return of real analogue on the market, we're also seeing software catching up in its ability to reproduce the real sound of analogue gear: things like U-He's Diva can blow your mind! If you close your eyes, you won't tell the difference, let alone in a mix... And I think FM8 is probably the best digital FM synth out there, for example. And things like Zebra, allowing you to draw waves by hand and having such mad routing possibilities (and don't get me started on Reaktor, search for Tim Exile Reaktor's setup on youtube and let your jaw drop eheh) is something that even hardcore hardware people should keep an eye on. At the end of the day what matters is the music we make, and nowadays there's plenty of ways to sound good.

I got into this totally inside the box, and only recently got myself a couple of hardware synths, for example. Once you learn to make them sound good, even the cheap plug-ins we used to have, imagine what you can do with the real deal. I think the difference between my generation and yours, so to speak, is that we're getting to know hardware after using computers a lot, and you're doing the opposite. And it's cool. Full circle, again

[namnibor]

Like the way you put that into words. Full circle indeed. Have been computer literate since Windows 95 *but* nothing as far as DAW until this past year or two. That's why I decided last year to take some sound advice and have a seperate custome tower pc built for video and audio editing duties and use laptop for everyday use and a book I keep putting-off intend to write about rather unique military experiences. Being a Type-A Personality, rarely do absolutely nothing for sake of doing nothing.
There's *ONE* vst/synth/sampler called Izotope IRIS that I want to purchase eventually. Ever read-up and see the things you can do with sound as if it were maleable clay? It's not a cheap one at $199. but would let you take a portable digital recorder and lay it next to a railroad track when train is en route, then take that sound as well (as banks of sounds it comes with) and imagine mixing slice of the stress on metal on metal mixed with say a bee's nest, thunder, and say a dash of cat's meow--then resampling, twisting, effecting, filtering, then drawing vector-like lines where the pass of the synth/oscillator's built cross over become whatever you want...! Take a look http://izotope.com/products/audio/iris/ at demo and tell me what you think? It's like making sounds with a Haydron Collider (sp?), ha!
What's cool about the "full-circel" as you wrote above, is both groups have alot to offer and learn from each, if Ego and Id is let down to do so. Imagine Access Support pulling their hair out whilst being patient with those that Virus Control issues were more times than not their misunderstanding of the computer environment? Have read some real funny threads where people having problems with their DAW, whichever it may be, yet stubornly expecting to be using skype or play person to person proccessor intensive games over internet!! Ignorance is bliss to some...the red or blue pill?!

[oscillator]

I lived a period computer-free and it was nice, but when i discovered Ableton Live i jump off the chair! Simply because of the endless possibilities of DAW.
I mean in terms of workflow and unique combinations possibilities that are impossible in the 'real world'.
Iris seems cool, but i watched some basic sample manipulation around that gives you similar results. I don't like too much tweaking samples, and maybe for that Iris could be good, 'cause it gives you a sort af 'automated creativity' for new sounds.

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by oscillator

I lived a period computer-free and it was nice, but when i discovered Ableton Live i jump off the chair! Simply because of the endless possibilities of DAW.
I mean in terms of workflow and unique combinations possibilities that are impossible in the 'real world'.
Iris seems cool, but i watched some basic sample manipulation around that gives you similar results. I don't like too much tweaking samples, and maybe for that Iris could be good, 'cause it gives you a sort af 'automated creativity' for new sounds.

Both the visual artist and musician in me loves what it can do as a "tool" nothing more and nothing less. As it also has full keyboard assignment to sounds created. But, in just listening to the demo, it actually made me realize MORE I can do without IRIS using the crazy-deeper filters and mod-matirx of my Waldorf Q and of course our beloved Virus! By the way, the big Q and my Virus B and C are all equally deep, yet the Q is significantly different or vice versa, that together they are stronger than any single component. Oscillator, after hearing your SoundCloud stuff especially, I think you can realize where we can not necessarily have to buy software like IRIS nor copy it, yet be further inspired knowing our instruments are so ahead of any hardware still in sound design capabilities, that especially using say the external input to bring one's cooked-up crazy-ass alien filter-playing madness BACK into itself or from another synth (such as highly rec. microwave XT), we gain a new perspective/inspiration by IRIS or even a visit to a Museum of Modern Art and how that stimulates the creative thought processes??!! I hope I made some sense...just started first cup of coffee for day!
Thanks for the shared experience with Ableton Live as I have a Lite version that came with a Novation Remote SL61 MKII still residing in closet and keep being told would like the work-flow of it for it's intuitiveness, if anything. Have some tutorial DVD's picked-up on Reaper and like it's approach because unlike most other DAW's, YOU set-up Reaper to how you want it to work for YOU rather than the rather sterile pro tools (barrrf) approach. I also like Reaper's open source approach and constantly improving features for free given the donationware is honored of like $60. usd for vast future window of updates. The PC is simply a tool and for me, do not like to be spending more time alved to it rather than actually exploring sonic frontiers with my hardware.
Do you have an interest Oscillator, in the Korg Mini-MS20 100% analog monosynth? It in fact could be another source of running output of Virus through real analog filters and more or using cv from pedal out to activate an open filter, et al...entirely new territories at an unbeatable sound and know that the MS20 can be made to sound chaotic-rip frontal lobe out as well as smooth and nice--not a typical "Korg sound" one would identify with their digital synths, YET it's own sound unlike say a Moog or DSI DCO. These are exciting times for sound design and I know for fact there's many people that would love to have any incarnation of Virus, even if it is smothered in sour grapes, once they realize the rather silly stereotype many have mentally adopted that Virus is ONLY good for trance genre...kind of like saying my washing machine is best used for all white clothes and a different washing machine is better at colored clothes. It's ALL dependant on a person going beyond presets and diving in and exploring infinite possibilities with the tools in front of them.

[TweakHead]

I was blown away with the IRIS's videos, and I'm pretty much used to sample editing and crazy sound design within the daw. There's one thing that needs mentioning here, they have this special technology for pitch shifting that works wonders, unlike most pitch shifting plug-ins on the market, it gives you a very natural feel without the usual artificial sounding artifacts (but sometimes this is just the sound we want eheh, I'm thinking that cubase's time stretch has become a trademark in psytrance...And it sounds cheap and alien like artificial). Think of something like the Eventide H3000 hardware (and there's a plug-in version of that that I'm interested in... do you guys knew about that? interesting times indeed), in that it allows you to time stretch stuff and keep it sounding natural. Ever heard of the Harmonizer effect?

http://izotope.com/products/audio/radius/

this is what I'm talking about. there's only support for the two daws mentioned, because it really integrates with it, but sounds wonderful. Because when you get into special treatment of samples, be it vocals or whatever, you want really pristine sounding fx...

But yeah, I also use my Virus as an fx unit. Have a stereo output from a channel on the daw that goes into the Virus's Inputs, just for that. If I eventually get the Korg-MS 20, I'm thinking that running even a vocal sample through it and patching craziness on tops would produce out of this world effect... And I'm a Logic user, really happy with it. But I also play with Ableton sometimes, it begun with an interest for a Live interface (also came with my sl remote mk2) and later got more interested in its features and sometimes use the rewire thing on that

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

I was blown away with the IRIS's videos, and I'm pretty much used to sample editing and crazy sound design within the daw. There's one thing that needs mentioning here, they have this special technology for pitch shifting that works wonders, unlike most pitch shifting plug-ins on the market, it gives you a very natural feel without the usual artificial sounding artifacts (but sometimes this is just the sound we want eheh, I'm thinking that cubase's time stretch has become a trademark in psytrance...And it sounds cheap and alien like artificial). Think of something like the Eventide H3000 hardware (and there's a plug-in version of that that I'm interested in... do you guys knew about that? interesting times indeed), in that it allows you to time stretch stuff and keep it sounding natural. Ever heard of the Harmonizer effect?

http://izotope.com/products/audio/radius/

this is what I'm talking about. there's only support for the two daws mentioned, because it really integrates with it, but sounds wonderful. Because when you get into special treatment of samples, be it vocals or whatever, you want really pristine sounding fx...

But yeah, I also use my Virus as an fx unit. Have a stereo output from a channel on the daw that goes into the Virus's Inputs, just for that. If I eventually get the Korg-MS 20, I'm thinking that running even a vocal sample through it and patching craziness on tops would produce out of this world effect... And I'm a Logic user, really happy with it. But I also play with Ableton sometimes, it begun with an interest for a Live interface (also came with my sl remote mk2) and later got more interested in its features and sometimes use the rewire thing on that

JUST like the original, the new MS20 has the best in my memory in analog vocoding capabilities as well. Guess will have to take a look at that free version of Ableton because there are some rather cool interfaces for it as well if I like the workflow immediately. I was not aware of a VST of Harmonizer but I would hope it's MUCH more economic that say the hardware Harmonizer units that used are over thousand usd...EEEK! Am not necessarily heavy user of effects, more reverb on individual on and off channels using the A and B effects send/return on my hardware mixer that is more of a pre-mixer (as I call it) to then- feed into audio interface. May have mentioned this but learned about these Kawai MX8 mixer rack units that are indeed called even Keyboard Mixers that has a signal-totally-unrelated midi in and three midi-thru, serving VERY convenient puirpose of a midi merge and locality of it in my 'U-shaped' set-up, which if on the right side of the Capital 'U' extend straight line-up and that goes alone wall to my computer desk at an angle in corner where computers are---having that midi thru located more or less at bottome-middle part of the 'U-Shape', has made a great nexus and bought two of them used for less than $100. collectively, and use one to sum the four stereo outputs of the 2 MEK's and the Evolver Desktops polychained to them because they have different output volumes inherent intelligently design, so that allows me to use primarily different reverbs selectively on mixer when and where want it. Evolver series has three different places (at once if want) you can use the delay parameter in signal of each of 4 Osc's, and it has Distortion but no reverb and reverb used intelligently (not overused) really adds ambience.
There IS seemingly an overuse of a type of "time-stretch effect" that *can* seem to get overused just like that predelay with high pass filter on a vocal every since I think Cher of all people, kind of started that effect being used to adnauseum! I won a giveaway at some point early last year of a Zoom R24 (look up specs) and although has no midi, recording onto up to 32GB SDHC cards in .wav format, supposedly are able to bring those files directly into a DAW and drop in. It works as a pad sampler, able to record 8 tracks at a time, WHILE playing back tracks and recording same time...very versatile piece and has just one pair stereo outputs and 6 of the 8 inputs have preamps avail...ever hear of it? It supposedly works as an audio interface as well so if this AVID Fast Track C600 USB audio/midi interface is a pain is ass will try that before spending cash on another interface because if I do, want to fully use my Firewire or USB 3 for low to no latency.
Sorry a bit jumpy from different topics--am entertaining a toothache and cannot get in until Feb 5 and pain is too close to brain!! EEK! Tweakhead--how do utilize midi in your set-up, if at all? The Virus has like three different midi config's types, which I really have never read of ANY other synths having such versatile set-ups avail like Virus B or C. Admitedly, am still wrapping my head around deeper properties of midi and have a used thick master book coming from ebay next week. Wondering what, if any config you found works most intuitively--that's how my rather right-brained mind rolls--intuitively. Thanks!

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

I was blown away with the IRIS's videos, and I'm pretty much used to sample editing and crazy sound design within the daw. There's one thing that needs mentioning here, they have this special technology for pitch shifting that works wonders, unlike most pitch shifting plug-ins on the market, it gives you a very natural feel without the usual artificial sounding artifacts (but sometimes this is just the sound we want eheh, I'm thinking that cubase's time stretch has become a trademark in psytrance...And it sounds cheap and alien like artificial). Think of something like the Eventide H3000 hardware (and there's a plug-in version of that that I'm interested in... do you guys knew about that? interesting times indeed), in that it allows you to time stretch stuff and keep it sounding natural. Ever heard of the Harmonizer effect?

http://izotope.com/products/audio/radius/

this is what I'm talking about. there's only support for the two daws mentioned, because it really integrates with it, but sounds wonderful. Because when you get into special treatment of samples, be it vocals or whatever, you want really pristine sounding fx...

But yeah, I also use my Virus as an fx unit. Have a stereo output from a channel on the daw that goes into the Virus's Inputs, just for that. If I eventually get the Korg-MS 20, I'm thinking that running even a vocal sample through it and patching craziness on tops would produce out of this world effect... And I'm a Logic user, really happy with it. But I also play with Ableton sometimes, it begun with an interest for a Live interface (also came with my sl remote mk2) and later got more interested in its features and sometimes use the rewire thing on that

Too bad that Izotope Radias you sent me does not work ALSO as standalone, as you may have see IRIS indeed does--works as a VST Plugin or totally standalone...IRIS also has properties of ALOT of other Izotope products to INCLUDE that time stretch and there's a FREE Demo to try it!

[TweakHead]

Yeah, that's the point - the IRIS does have the same technology implemented. Also worth checking out is the Sound Toys plug-ins, made by the very same guys that designed the Eventide fx. But now Eventide is getting some of them on plug-in format, native. Yeah, the outboard gear of them is just completely out of my league.

I run a simple MIDI setup, as I only have to hardware synths. I have the Virus connected to the SL, both in and out, I then have it setup as a midi external instrument on Logic if I want it to read some notes I drawn or recorded previously, or hit the automap button so the led goes off and I can play notes and record the audio directly, for example. My firewire interface also has midi interface, so that's connected to the Korg, same deal, but I can also put the midi Through on that from the SL, so I can play them both, or just one (all it takes is turning the volume down on one of them). No latency problems here.

If you're looking for audio interfaces, and you can afford it, then there's hardly anything better out there then the RME's interfaces - both in sound quality, converters and pre-amps. And you get black magic lower latencies with those as well. But they're sort of expensive. But it works with any given DAW and it's totally hi fidelity stuff.

Your post reminded me that I'm running out of audio inputs on my interface for direct connection and it would take some kind of mixer to get new synths in and being able to have them all connected at once. Would like to get one with 3 band analogue EQ, like the Yamaha's, that let's you choose a given frequency to boost, would be nice. Or something along those lines... Since you have keyboard training and all, what do you think of the keyb action on the novation, btw? I think it's rather acceptable, much more so then other cheap midi controllers I've tried. At least I've grown used to it eheh...