Korg Re-Issue mini-MS20 Monosynth!!!!

[namnibor]

NAMM 2013 is pretty exciting. Back in 1982 I learned synthesi after 10 years of formal classical piano and reed training on the original korg MS20 and this new re-release is 86% of size of original but SAME designers of the original MS20 made an ALL two VCO/VCA/VCF LPF and VCF HPF....carbon copy of original with patchbay and all and same exact sound and behavior but instead of 1/4' patchbay inputs, they are all 1/8 and comes with 10 patch cords and only has midi in for note-on and usb for recieving/transmitting note-on, and of course analog cv so it can be connected to other analog gear or outboard stuff and shipping projected March for MAP $599. usd. http://www.korg.com/MS20mini
I think I will be adding this to my set-up because the original on ebay at any given time is well over two thousand usd...eeek! Wish I had kept mine! Anyway, this is 100% analog and in my opinion, knowing what this can do with fully resonate and self-oscillating both LPF and High Pass Filters and crazier alien-contacting sounds than everything but perhaps an expensive classic Moog; this revelotion of true analog is really exciting and will just tell you would get a much more versatile true analog synth and better made than the current arturia minibrute for just a hundred bucks more....thought to share and wondering if anyone else had twiddled original korg MS20 years ago as well and thoughts on this cool new beast? It INDEED is a modular monosynth and can sound fat and juicy and as rude and rip your face off in a turnof a few knobs....no presets--all hands-on back to basic synthis bandcamp!
Robert

[TweakHead]

yeah... Korg is definitely trying to get my money with this one...

also check the new Moog, with the noise generator and distortion section on the filter... I just think it's a little to expensive the Moog one, specially after Korg announced this..

things were going well for Arturia with the Mini Brute, not so sure how it will go now... this product is a winner.

roland and the others should do the same, it would drive me mad... I'd had to take 4 jobs if that happens

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

yeah... Korg is definitely trying to get my money with this one...

also check the new Moog, with the noise generator and distortion section on the filter... I just think it's a little to expensive the Moog one, specially after Korg announced this..

things were going well for Arturia with the Mini Brute, not so sure how it will go now... this product is a winner.

roland and the others should do the same, it would drive me mad... I'd had to take 4 jobs if that happens

Call me crazy, but I take issue with the marketing gimmiky name "phhhh-aa-ty", and brings horrible images of Kia hood-rats, e-hem, HAMSTERS in hoodies driving an incredibly ugly boxy car commercial! Also do not like the form-factor. Just me, (vohhmIT)! Have officially given-up waiting for Waldorf Pulse 2 and will get a call from Sweetwater as soon as I can preorder the Korg Mini-MS20! Price is great for exact same analog circuitry as original and although mini-me keys usually give me reason to convulse, the up to 10 SECOND envelope attack and 20 SECOND RELEASE; the mini-keys are really of no consequence because I already see this being connected to midi out of MonoEvolverkeyboard polychained to Desktop Evolver, as the only midi in on MS20 is ONLY for note-on and the USB is ONLY for rec;v/transmit NOTE-ON, so will follow whatever playing and be extra depth and craziness....and comes with 10 patchcords!! I may be able to connect my cat in some fashion to this mini-modular monster!!! GASGASGASGASGASGASGASGASGAS!

[TweakHead]

yeah, the pulse 2 is taking forever... also curious about it... but I think Moog is thinking straight on this one, with the new tendency to overdriven sounds out there. the precision on that, for an analogue, is pretty impressive, and so is the sound... and I think it looks cool, very moogy... just don't like the price. there's the chance for developers presenting products on the same price range of the minibrute and this korg ms 20, and Moog didn't drop the price... the minitaur is a joke, for example. people like features, and being able to continue to pay the rent while making music. I don't even look at stuff like the prophet 12 myself, cool and all, but completely out of my budget...

[namnibor]

Moog's marketing dept. has some impressive video's and am glad at least two USA synth makers, DSI and Moog, continue to manufacter within our country, but then there's price for that and the realized higher quality machines. The Sub-Phatty does have some impressive capabilities but if you are going to cut costs by placing a 2 1/2 octave octave keyboard on a machine that you have to press a couple of switches every time you want to switch octaves--it seems not all that intuitive to me in the flow of we musician-minded folk. Yes, the Minotaur, I agree did not catch my interest either. The Korg Mini-MS20 keys are made custom FOR it and if you look at them closely on Korg's product page here: http://www.korg.com/MS20mini They are such that for a monosynth player's fingering techniques, to acommodate them. Read the specifications as well as they are exact spec's as original from 1970's and you will see in a flash video the designers are same engineers that made original as well. I loook back and see how Korg was testing the waters for analog by the different models of monotrons they had released AND they have a few VST releases of their vintage analog synths to include an iMS20 App. I personally have not jumped on the iPad wagon. The closest to it is a Barnes and Noble Nook Color Reader which originally got primarily to read the plethora of pdf manuals and such of the synths I have because it's beyond me how so many people selling synths on ebay do not have the paper manual! Perhaps I am a bit more retentive that others but it's just as important as the power supply if you ask me!
Anyway, I actually like the no modern digital menus on MS20, just 86% of it's original size and when you see the product page and pic side by side, it's not entirely a big difference. The majority of the cut down size is actually from the original had ALL 1/4 patch bays and on this one all 1/8 inch and since they will be providing 10 patch cables, power, original manual and programming charts while not changing a thing with the sound, keeping true to original--have not been this excited about new synth release in while as it will truely augment DSI MonoEvolverKeyboard.
You are right about the new DSI Prophet 12--way out of most people's price range and am wondering for a small company, if they are planning to soon drop the former flagship, the Poly Evolver Keyboard? The MonoEvolverKeyboard was officially discontinued June 2012. They still sell ALOT of the desktop evolver but man, once you use the MEK interface rather than the admitedly intuitive, once you get used to the grid, once you realize how many parameters you can access immediately/same time and tweak on a very knobby surface, there's no looking back. I have no doubt they will sell alot of them, definitely not to me.
May I assume Access brought nothing new to NAMM? I love my Virus but have been thinking that don't you think it may be time for Access to produce a totally different product, rather than continue same product line improved? Playing devil's advocate with what I just wrote; Moog has been producing analog monosynths mainly for most part for 50 years??!!

[TweakHead]

Yeah, but it doesn't surprise me that Access doesn't have a new product at this point, after releasing the new OS just a while ago. With this crysis developers can't afford to take risks, they can either hit the market with a win win product, or they'd better hold it. And I guess it shows. I think the biggest part of the market, today, must be affordable mono synths with a nice interface with knobs, and of course analogue - which more and more people, of this new generation of electronic music, have a wish for (including myself). And I think some companies are being smart about it. Like Korg, I also think they tested the market for small analogue stuff (with the all mighty ms-20 filter, worth the money by itself) and the very tiny controllers to, that are great for people using laptops for playing gigs not having to carry a big controller with them... I'd say this reencarnation of the MS-20 reads to me like a genius marketing move by Korg. No need to spend money creating new circuit design and testing it, they already had a winner - they knew it just seeing for how much the original would go on Ebay, and the acceptance of the digital emulations of it. One has to imagine, what would happen to the world if Roland would make a reencarnation of their own legends? I mean... Why let 303 clones make a living out of their legend? And the number of plug-ins emulating their hardware classics is just beyond belief...

As for Waldorf, I think they rushed things... I think they probably didn't have more then a Blofeld painted black and a list of features to show, and if it was me behind it, I'd probably cancel it. For a bit more you get a classic with all the knob action and patching fun... The MEK was a product that appeals to this kind of market: mono analogue with knobs and small keyboard. I think that's what people want eheh. Either that, or digital with as many functions as space shuttles and a nice ergonomic interface along with it... (I think that's the virus on my dictionary)

As for Access, they would hit big with a plug-in! more so if it was some kind of modular, perhaps with an interface... yeah, there's room for digital modular to (if someone's reading this), just check how much people would like something like a nord modular g3 to become true... Just saying...

[Timo]

Regards Access at NAMM, I have been searching absolutely everywhere and even dropped a load of emails to different places but I've drawn a complete blank. In past years it's also been hard to get info on Access announcements, but there's been no teaser on their site, or on Facebook, so not personally expecting anything this time given OS v5 has recently gone gold, but the kid in me would be lying if I said I wasn't a touch disheartened.

Originally Posted by TweakHead

With this crysis developers can't afford to take risks, they can either hit the market with a win win product, or they'd better hold it. And I guess it shows. I think the biggest part of the market, today, must be affordable mono synths with a nice interface with knobs, and of course analogue - which more and more people, of this new generation of electronic music, have a wish for (including myself).

Take a peek at the new DSI Prophet 12, priced at $3K (the same as TI2 kb) [1][2]. That thing is going to absolutely fly off the shelves.

And I think some companies are being smart about it. Like Korg, I also think they tested the market for small analogue stuff (with the all mighty ms-20 filter, worth the money by itself) and the very tiny controllers to, that are great for people using laptops for playing gigs not having to carry a big controller with them...

I agree, on both counts. Korg have been very perceptive in both the economic and cultural changes the last few years. From primarily selling workstations a good few years ago, they've had the foresight to completely change their tactics and evolve with the times, and have left the other two of the 'big three', Yamaha and Roland, lost for dust.

As for the Monotron paving way for the MS20, I think we'll see more analogue re-issues. Maybe even from Roland if they wake up and get a grip, they're in a prime position. There's definately a bit of an analogue renaissance occuring at the moment.

As for Access, they would hit big with a plug-in!

If Access made a native plugin, there would be huge stakes involved. The Virus is Access' only product. If it were cracked, it would kill Access completely.

I'm quite happy with hardware, but I feel Access need to be even more innovative with sound design and performance features. I think, from what other companies are offering now, both software VSTi and hardware, even analogue like the DSI Prophet12, that Access cannot afford just to drip feed a couple of small updates every year or two and continue to price the Virus the way it is. The Virus has saturated the market, Access need to do something more radically to it to add to it, or do something different with it, or even create another product, to continue to make it relevant.

I think the problem is, or was, that Access has (had to have) gotten so obsessed with the TI element, trying to get it to integrate and work under so many DAWs, that they've kinda lost sight of what they were originally good at - the sound design features.

It's crying out for new radical sound sculpting additions, FM, new controllable wave-types, user editable oscillators, maybe even sampling, and greater performance features to revitalise the brand.

Just brings it home when you look at the Prophet 12 Dave Smith is showcasing at NAMM to be released soon, that the same money of the TI2kb will be able to buy you a true analogue 12-voice monster of a synth with 4+1 oscillator per voice and immense sound programming abilities, and on the other flip of the coin where the Virus has gotten extremely heavy competition from feature-laden software VSTi's inside DAWs at mere fractions of the cost, additionally the way the developers of such synths are prolific in adding new features...

I feel Access cannot merely afford to sit on their laurels and continue to charge such an outstanding amount in this climate without innovating if they wish to remain engaged and not fall behind. I absolutely hope they don't (fade away), I love the Virus (otherwise I wouldn't be here hosting Infekted! )

[TweakHead]

Yeah, but that's why I say that they should bring something new to the game. It doesn't have to be a Virus plug-in, as that would certainly be cracked and become the most used thing ever, and kill thelm at the same time, but something else. That's why I pointed the digital modular market, as I think Access could probably make a dream product on that department... Could even be hardware, like the G2, but should never (my opinion of course) be in the same price range as the virus... That would perhaps bring some more cash in, and allow them to develop other stuff... I absolutely agree with you, when you say that they should focus on developing new features, that's really what they're good at, I mean we both own the virus c (you have an indigo 2, right?) and we're here on this forum, that means a lot... The flexibility and options on the virus used to be it's main bonus... Plug-ins have come a long way, for sure, but I think they'd trade everything to get such a lush sounding filters as we have on the virus, to name just one of it's features that's killer... And that's why it continues to sell, it still sounds amazing, best sounding digital synth out there, in my opinion.

I think the Prophet is cool, but a multi-mode filter would be usefull. I personally like the Poly Evolver more, being a hybrid and all, could defenitely find a place for a MEK (even though it's a bit expensive, on ebay..)... But, to finish, I think they would really shine with another product, either software or hardware, or maybe a combination of both, like Maschine, priced lower then the virus and take it from there...

[namnibor]

Ditto--everything Timo stated!

I also forsee the used analog synth market to see ALOT of (for instance) Andromeda's being sold on ebay soon to fund say DSI Prophet 12. Realistically, the economy is SLOWLY coming back, but those feeling that are those that really did not get hard mid-2007+.
DSI Prophet 12 total specs have not been released as of yet but Dave Smith himself proudly states they took the best elements of the Evolver/PolyEvolver and the Prophet 08 and newer technology realized in developing the Tempest with Roger Linn. So, there's speculation that it very-well may be a mega-hybrid with a heavy-leaning toward the Analog. Having been in-contact with DSI Customer Svc this Fall and Winter quite alot regarding the two MonoEvolverKeyboards and realizing elements of it. They are a small company that has awesome customer service and build quality. In case someone does not know this; when Sequential Circuits firstly went belly-up (with lessons learned by a small company about how to manage overhead--since), Dave and John Bowen went onto Yamaha for a very short time to develope but Yamaha was not willing to take the chances on the new technology/synthesis techniques but Korg DID--that's how Dave brought the world the Wavestation Series Keyboards and the two rack units SR and A/D. Pretty risky on Korg's part because at that point and time, Korg was just climbing out of the ashes of temporarily having Yamaha keep their own competitor from going bankrupt. Korg showed then their continual unabashingly willingness to innovate and take a chance with Dave Smith, incidentally, the father of MIDI.
DSI remains a very small company and would dare to say smaller than Waldorf and Access by far and a recent colloquiem at a University, Dave Smith stated he wished his company to stay exactly that--a small company bringing innovative and fun instruments for musicians.

That said, I can only deeply hope that NAMM 2013 has made namely Access and indeed Waldorf wake-up! You have a small company that has STILL been pretty much working out their garage workshop in Sweden, Elektron, and they are gaining momentum because of INNOVATION and taking chances. Their instruments are incredibly versatile and will humbly state I am not exactly a slow learner but in having one of their first incarnation Monomachines for the extensive external and internal midi sequencing and multiple synthesis techniques--I have put that on hold until mastering a few other things because it's the deepest thing encountered thus far. Elektron released weeks before Namm the Analog 4 that still will have zillions of features added as they continue developement and they are selling them as soon as new shipments go out to the major shops in the USA.

There's two examples of small companies willing to take chances and bring musicians new instruments. Korg indeed is very smart and lest I forget Arturia and their MiniBrute, of which Moog specifically made a new instrument in response to it at two times plus it's price. I hope Access is reading this because we are not simply "fanboys and girls", we like what has been produced but the silience is becoming deafening and there are many options out there now to augment our Virii set-ups, but they would be silly to think every Virus owner is going to continue to save all "expendable income" (a relative term, I know), waiting to drop onto whenever new product or new firewire interface for Ti to perhaps work great on--on a "whenever timeline". There's Additive Synthesis, et al, that software developers like Alchemy are doing very well with that there's no reason these types and even brand new types of synthesis and sampling, as Timo suggested--even resampling (as Elektron is doing) and again Elektron doing innovative hardware sequencers...yes, there's a HUGE market for it because the MPC is very much has-been and with technology advancing faster, so should expectations of instruments...OR...as the pendulum swings; back to real analog and analog/hybrids. I feel better after this therapy session and time is up and your copay is....HA!
Robert

[namnibor]

There's a HUGE subculture of modular synth geeks and Access doing something that would be hardware to add to anyone's eurorack or series of modules--I think indeed that would be a reason to make me start a mini-modular. I had considered Dark Energy II until the Korg Mini-MS20 became more than rumour and speculation based on their software release of same.
Will definitely give a review here once I have the MS20 in my hands---it's so cool in coming full-circle inbringing back to 1982 where I learned subtractive synthesis on the original and once I felt secure with that, my first polyphonic synth in 1983 was a Sequential Circuits Prophet 600 in which gigged with other military guys we managed to form a band AND play out with our various crazy US Air Force schedules. Always wanted to replace it but the used prices are a few thousand. By the way, the origianl Korg MS20 was Korg's "affordable analog monosynth" back then and full-circle, they indeed are going to sell ALOT of them and dare say many more than Moog's new offering!!!! Happy Happy Joy Joy!! (any Ren and Stimpy fans?)