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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
but let me counter riposte...
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Go for it....I like discussion...
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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
......you have to understand that a large proportion of the human race wont really know what an oberheim is, let alone what an OB-1 sounds like
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Agreed
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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
sound design and music production in general is a very very subtle thing. i like to think that i am very familiar with how an access virus b sounds but i have been consistantly fooled by other producers into thinking it was another synth
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I dont quite follow what you mean - are you saying that some of your friends have made sounds on a virus and it led you to believe it came from another synth?
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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
it depends on so many things from how you program it to how much air you leave on, to how you process it both during and after production
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For some sounds.....possibly yes.....post production etc could/can make certain digital/VA sounds 'sound analog.' However, Id have to emphasise....only a
few sounds could get away with this....
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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
what is the soul of a classic synth? do instruments have a soul or is it the instrumentalist that gives it a soul? are synths nothing but discrete electronic modules? are you talking about the random subtlties of analog? the subtle changes in pitch over time? the fact some of them have have quirky characteristics and flaws?
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Ive watched the Bob Moog documentary several times over (and I own a copy - its worth it!) and theres an interview with Bob, Rick Wakeman and a few others.....and they comment on the 'soul' factor. In fact Rick refers to it as the 'X' factor....and to him atleast its what makes a synth a GREAT synth. Im of the impression that instrumentalists such as Rick and Vangelis exploit this soul, make it their own and go on to define new genres of music....whilst the rest of us are foaming at the mouths trying to make 20 year old emulations on modern equipment.
To the second part....yes....I believe the soul in a synth comes from the subtle variations of analog components and their interaction with one another. A true analog sound is an organic/alive sound.....a digital sound is of 'playback' quality....Both can be used to great effect.....but using just digital coupled with modern digital recording practicies makes for boring records IMHO.
Sadly, I recently looked into analog recording....the equipment needed to make semi pro level recordings and its sooo expensive. Such a shame...
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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
the virus is an interesting synth because it doesnt make it difficult to add a degree of randomness to a patch in order to make it sound...more 'alive'. mod matrix. source: random. detination: oscdetune or oscpitch. or whatever. with meticulous post processing you can get very very close
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Thats interesting....and at the end of the day
personal opinion on both our parts. When I had the Virus KC....there was nothing I could do to evoke analog randomness to the sound. I tried everything.....using mod matrix, subtle detunings, subtle amounts of distortion or what ever you fancy will not be the same as the effortless randomness you get with say a Prophet 5 or Mono-Poly.
Most people who make a retro sounding patch on a VA are happy with that....to them its good enough....and dare I say...serves the purpose for them. But for me.....its not good enough. I dont know what this says about me.....but its just where im different to other people. BTW.....i like the use of VA for sounds other than analog emulation. I like the 'analog style controls'......but I think VA's come into their own when making 'outhere' type sounds.
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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
the technology is always improving and our knowledge is provisional. but dont rule out the fact that we will never *be able* to perfectly clone analogue instruments
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It will be interesting to see if this ever happens. If it did....I still think the sound will have a digital sheen to it. Id love to know what causes that digital, glassy sheen that is heard on all digital synths. If one could remove that....then I think you'd be alot closer to an authentic experience.
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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
i am glad to spend my time trying to see and recreate some of the details in the sounds of synths i cannot afford. at the same time, the results quite often just make me even more glad i bought a virus b
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Theres no harm in that....its ironic....but im trying to make super modern sounds using a DX7 right now...and yes!....it is fun
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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
but to suggest that you buy a virtual analogue instrument to only create virtual analogue stock sounds is such a narrow approach. i will try to emulate any sound i hear that i find compelling and interesting enough to warrant the excercise. in the end i will at least learn something new about how that sound is made. or how it is definitely not made if i should not be way off the mark. but look at the presets on your virus - how many presets are oberheim emulations? moog emulations? 303 emulations? how many flute and violin and cello sounds do you see on it?
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Agreed, the best way to learn sound design is to experiment and realise what a synth can and can't do. For instance, the DX7 is my first synth that has 3 8 stage envelope generators for rate, level and pitch. The pitch EG's are interesting.....if your wanting acoustic simulations of bass, guitar, flute, organs etc etc....then you must have a pitch EG.
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Originally Posted by Wandering Kid
....that your copy will be imperfect. but sometimes, and this happen alot for me, there is something about the sound of my copy that i like, that isnt necessarily what i like about the original sound. so i will keep reiterating this and incorporating/deriving new ideas from other original sounds. and over time, this will become *my* sound
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A good point m8....and a nice way to end our discussion
DS