what do you think about file sharing of music on the net.

[Juho L]

Originally Posted by ledge

This is possible without the behemoth which is the major label recording industry at the moment. The paperwork is huge because the recording business has made it that way, plenty of small businesses exist without having to be part of some massive conglomorate, why can't the music industry work similarly?

At least in Finland the state collects and takes care of taxing, not the music industry. ?hih. When you pay salaries to musicians, mixermen, etc, you're an employer, which means you'll have to be an entrepeneur which leads into a taxation hell and to seventh level of Dante's recepit inferno. Running a small business is not an easy task. Loads of work with the financial things.

The original point was that the Beatles made a fortune from only getting a few p per record sold, so if artists got a higher percentage of the actual sales they could make a living without having to sell massive quatities. It is only that the majotrs rip off artists so badly at the moment that it means that artists have to sell huge numbers of albums to make a living.

Wouldn't it be nice if you would get more pay for an average factory work so you wouldn't have to work extra shifts to get some money left after living costs. Life is like a flower bed: There is no flowers without manure and dirt. Totally equal business and market is total utopia. It's just a thing one has to accept. As long as humans are running the system there will be greedy bastards. But remember kids that the big music industry bullies are not the only one's cooping more than they need. for example think of Paul McCartney - Why none of you whine why he haven't spend his millions to support new music and musicians even he can burn 100 pounds in bright flame each minute and he would still have money left when he dies? Greed folks, greed. If the big bullies don't take the extra then someone else does. I'm not saying that the modern music industry is great, but don't bite the hand that feeds your fellows.

Did you read that link to Steve Albini looking at the numbers and who makes what?

A bad contract is a bad contract.

My point is that the middlemen are taking a far bigger slice of the pie than they deserve, not that they shouldn't exist at all.

Everyone takes a far bigger slice if they can. If you take a hundred people in a big hall with a huge box in the middle filled with 20 euro notes and put up a sign declaring "One note per person", what do you think does everyone walk out with one note in their hand? Of course they do, except they have their pockets and shirts filled with notes.

I agree that they are digging their own grave, and I'm not condoning downloading music and not buying it, though I will refuse to buy music from major labels. At the same time I don't really listen to music from major labels as most of it is not to my tastes.

But not buying it because of the label is really just doing damage to the artists. Buy the record, damn it! I bet my arm that you wear clothes that has one promille of the sales income spent to the salaries of the people actually making them and I also bet that the profits of almost everything you have bought is unfairly shared. Still you don't seem to make a number of it. We live in a rotten globalised world in which silly itty-bitty fraction of people get all the profits excluding the itty-bitty fraction that goes to the other people. Unfair world.

I'm pretty sure we are thinking the same thing here :)

What is this? A peace pipe of some sort! I fart in your peace pipe's general direction!

[gimpoid]

bad ,we need super rich untalented demi gods 0%

well at least we all agree on 1 thing

[Juho L]

Originally Posted by gimpoid

well at least we all agree on 1 thing

I didn't knew trance producers could be super rich demi gods. Oh well, the days, the days.

[gimpoid]

Originally Posted by Juho L

I didn't knew trance producers could be super rich demi gods. Oh well, the days, the days.

i didnt mention trance i dont make trance and i wouldnt listen to trance in my spare time either. but if i do decide to that means i will never be super rich or make it at all? and according to you some spotty teenager at home who makes trance using reason is also less a musician, im sure that could offend alot of people in this forum.

do you have to be so anal juho this thread probablly would have stoped ages ago or could have possiblly even been inormative for quote all the kiddies out there end quote. instead of being some verbal and musical industrtry knowledge show of strength .
how did you become a mod anyway i ythink it may have gone to your head.

[ledge]

Originally Posted by Juho L

At least in Finland the state collects and takes care of taxing, not the music industry. ?hih. When you pay salaries to musicians, mixermen, etc, you're an employer, which means you'll have to be an entrepeneur which leads into a taxation hell and to seventh level of Dante's recepit inferno. Running a small business is not an easy task. Loads of work with the financial things.

Oh well, then you have a manager for your band and if you are big enough an accountant and so on. Maybe a few bands get together to share these people who do the boring stuff, but they should be answering to the bands as they are the reason these people have jobs. The major labels have got this all messed up so that the bands who should have the power and a say in how they do things have no power and get fucked over as much as the label possibly can.

Originally Posted by Juho L

Wouldn't it be nice if you would get more pay for an average factory work so you wouldn't have to work extra shifts to get some money left after living costs. Life is like a flower bed: There is no flowers without manure and dirt. Totally equal business and market is total utopia. It's just a thing one has to accept. As long as humans are running the system there will be greedy bastards. But remember kids that the big music industry bullies are not the only one's cooping more than they need. for example think of Paul McCartney - Why none of you whine why he haven't spend his millions to support new music and musicians even he can burn 100 pounds in bright flame each minute and he would still have money left when he dies? Greed folks, greed. If the big bullies don't take the extra then someone else does. I'm not saying that the modern music industry is great, but don't bite the hand that feeds your fellows.

So you think that we should just give up and never try to make anything better? And I'd bite that major label hand given the chance. There is no way I'd sign a major label contract even if I was talented enough to get offered a contract.

Originally Posted by Juho L

A bad contract is a bad contract.

But that is all the major labels offer. So fuck them, I'm not supporting a business that behaves like that.

Originally Posted by Juho L

Everyone takes a far bigger slice if they can. If you take a hundred people in a big hall with a huge box in the middle filled with 20 euro notes and put up a sign declaring "One note per person", what do you think does everyone walk out with one note in their hand? Of course they do, except they have their pockets and shirts filled with notes.

Not me, but I guess if everyone does it we should just give up and go with the flow eh?

Originally Posted by Juho L

But not buying it because of the label is really just doing damage to the artists. Buy the record, damn it! I bet my arm that you wear clothes that has one promille of the sales income spent to the salaries of the people actually making them and I also bet that the profits of almost everything you have bought is unfairly shared. Still you don't seem to make a number of it. We live in a rotten globalised world in which silly itty-bitty fraction of people get all the profits excluding the itty-bitty fraction that goes to the other people. Unfair world.

I do try to avoid bastard companies of all sorts, major record labels just make it easy as their product is rarely something I want

Originally Posted by Juho L

What is this? A peace pipe of some sort! I fart in your peace pipe's general direction!

Okay it's on then. Let's fight

[Juho L]

Originally Posted by ledge

Oh well, then you have a manager for your band and if you are big enough an accountant and so on.

There it is... A manager. An equal to the frightening suit man and Mr.Unfair share.

Maybe a few bands get together to share these people who do the boring stuff, but they should be answering to the bands as they are the reason these people have jobs.

Bands getting together to share economic resources and employees is called a label.

The major labels have got this all messed up so that the bands who should have the power and a say in how they do things have no power and get fucked over as much as the label possibly can.

As I said a bad contract is a bad contract. If you're stupid enough to sign a contract that's bad for you then it's your own personal tear. Don't hit the session musicians, damn it!

So you think that we should just give up and never try to make anything better?

I don't think we should just sit down. I mean we shouldn't eat our fellow men's bread. The major labels are going down by themselves. Let's just make sure that the musicians and other crew working on those labels make a living.

But that is all the major labels offer. So fuck them, I'm not supporting a business that behaves like that.

If you find a good band on a big label, you automatically assume they have a bad contract? If they have a bad contract and you don't buy the record just because of the label the band is even more deep shit.

Not me, but I guess if everyone does it we should just give up and go with the flow eh?

No-one does take extra. Never... Some how it jsut happens. Has to be the elves then.

I do try to avoid bastard companies of all sorts, major record labels just make it easy as their product is rarely something I want ;)

Why don't you avoid instead of trying to avoid?

[Juho L]

Originally Posted by gimpoid

and according to you some spotty teenager at home who makes trance using reason is also less a musician, im sure that could offend alot of people in this forum.

Tshihihii. The tradition goes on. I have done field research for years...

do you have to be so anal juho this thread probablly would have stoped ages ago or could have possiblly even been inormative for quote all the kiddies out there end quote.

I'm not anal. I'm just waking people up from time to time. Yesmen culture is bad for people. By the way this has become informative when I've brought up a different opinion with good arguments which creates discussion. Thread stopping is not a good sign. A thread stopping short means that the subject is banal and totally trivial which causes no interest. A fellow musicians living is not a trivial thing so I'd be really concerned if this thread would have died in few posts.

how did you become a mod anyway i ythink it may have gone to your head.

We have our little traditions here. Hoho. Enjoying the forum requires adapting a filtering method that turns most of the crap around here to sarcasm, humour and satire.

If people start to sleep, I'll wake them up. It's good for the forum, you'll see.

[Hollowcell]

Oh oh, seems like Juho is trying to be the main reason for more forum members leaving.

What's the total so far Juho?

[Juho L]

Originally Posted by Hollowcell

Oh oh, seems like Juho is trying to be the main reason for more forum members leaving.

Hey! I'm just trying to get some discussion here!

What's the total so far Juho?

Three or four. I'm not sure.

[3o3]

Hey! I'm just trying to get some discussion here!

Pff - I am with HC on this one..Trance totally kicks Progressive Rock Jazz Fusion ass!

I like those dreamy pad sounds and a arp supersaw-sound!