Normalising......Good or bad?

[Hollowcell]

Thanks for asking Jasesdee.

I was eagerly waiting for your reply to this, but still the quest continues.

I definately agree with your lecturer in regards to how people use normalizing. People seem to use it to boost poor recording alot. I never seem to use it to boost more than 1db on the final mix and sometimes I do get the final mix sitting at 0db - rare though. Did he mention when to use it then?

Also what he said about people wanting their CDs to have the highest volume possible - this is along the lines of what I was talking about earlier in the thread.

Blaming companies for releasing technolgy that gives more options to the average consumer is pretty fucked up though. Maybe he lost his job as an engineer or something. Maybe a few years back people with no knowledge would hear the before and afters and be overwhelmed with what the engineer had achived with their music, but now people can get closer than before to a polished sound.

That forum that Martyn linked us too before had a thread where the engineers were talking about what they should do if a home recording comes in and they don't have to do anything to it - I bet that never happened 5 years ago.

Anyway, hopefully someone will come along with a technical explanation.

[jasedee]

Yeah.....I was a bit dissapointed with his explanation too. he is very opinionated and passionate about audio, and I guess a bit old fashioned and nostaligic too, and maybe not wanting to accept technology and change.....

We go into the protools room next week, and I will ask one of the studio assistants about it. Maybe they will have a better answer for me, as they are a bit younger and more into the DAW based recording.

Cheers,

Jase

[hatembr]

well this guy reminds me of my uncle old fashioned and sticking to old analog stuff and the old methods.... anyway...

i used to normalise everything i record and used to have a lot of clipping problems even with the volumes lowered .... few weeks ago i decided to try mixing without normalising my audio and I was surprised.
I just record as clean as possible a signal that is not clipping (i use the LFO leds on the virus to see if it or not clipping before reaching the mixer), then compress (not always!).... to say the truth, the result is much better, it clips a lot less than usual and the sound isn't saturated. It sounds clearer.
I think clipping problems were due to normalising...... maybe because it boosts noises or something..... it is good to learn things by practising but it would be nice to have a technical explanation too....

[k-rite]

I think anything that compresses, limits, or normalizes, will hinder the dynamics of a sound. However, with careful and knowledgable use of these tools a desired sound or improved can be achieved, but original dynamics will be effected. Original dynamics are just that original, once passed through a compression tool then they are no longer original. Just my two cents...

[jasedee]

Also, the accuracy and quality of some software normalizing is a bit suspect.....which may have been the cause of clipping??

Jase

[hatembr]

Originally Posted by jasedee

Also, the accuracy and quality of some software normalizing is a bit suspect.....which may have been the cause of clipping??

i use Cubase SX2 to record and normalize. It would be a problem if such a famous soft isn't careful when dealing with audio and resulting in suspect and non occurate normalized results.

actually i think the problem is a wrong use of the normalizing function. In my case, i used to apply it to everything, and now i can see clearly the difference.

[jasedee]

Originally Posted by hatembr

i use Cubase SX2 to record and normalize. It would be a problem if such a famous soft isn't careful when dealing with audio and resulting in suspect and non occurate normalized results.

actually i think the problem is a wrong use of the normalizing function. In my case, i used to apply it to everything, and now i can see clearly the difference.

I use SX too......and Im sure that they have the normalising thing pretty much covered.....but for example, some CD burning software have a normalise function, that is sometimes automatically engaged to make all songs on the CD the same volume, and these are renowned for their inaccuracies. Steinberg do a great job!

And I definately agree with your opinion that people are mis-using and abusing this function....

Cheers,

Jase

[Hollowcell]

Using normalize on everything recorded is taking it a bit far. I actually never use it on individual sounds, but on the whole mix (depending).

As far as software goes. I haven't actually normalized with in cubase at all. As I'm doing it on the master track, wavelab does the work. Although after reading this thread I'm gunna try many different things with the normalizing function.

Over compression kills sound, that's for sure. But I can't hear much difference (if any) in the dynamics when I normalize. Only normalizing to raise the level very slighlty though (1db or 2 db at the most.).

Of course there would be some quality loss (as there is any time you apply soft effects/processing), but recording in 24/96 helps in this arena.

I'd really love your lecturer to give a pro-explanation Jase.

[Gopal]

Would just like to share my knowledge of normalising at this stage.

In my experience, normalising is where you set a desirable db and normalising raises the troughs in the recording to this level and compresses the peaks to this level at the same time, making the whole project play at pretty much the same level right through, which naturally destroys basically ALL dynamics in the recording. Also if you look at the waveforms after normalising you will find alot of peaks have been drastically cut and the waveform will fill the entire headroom and have a very digital and unnatural appearance to it.

I have mainly used normalising on DJ mixes that I have recorded as the DJ may have pushed the levels up on a new track he was mixing in or as is often the case the levels have gradually crept up throughout the recording.

[jasedee]

OooOhhh....This is a sore point for Hollowcell, one that could stir up some deep seeded emotional trauma! He still has trouble sleeping from the lack of closure on this thread.....I dont know if we should go bringing up the past

Just for the record, I think I will give my final opinion on Normalizing.

I think that it is a good thing, when used in the right situations, and that if used incorrectly or too much, it can be a VERY bad thing. Im pretty sure what it does is raise the entire level without causing clipping, so it would be like a fader with peak limiter??/.

Is that a good definition?

Normalizing - "A fader with a peak limiter"

Do we dare re-open old wounds?