DAW discussions

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

OK so I finally got around to doing the 'test' on my Macbook pro. I might add that I recently removed the optical drive & replaced it with a SSD drive & the difference in performance is amazing. If you really want peak performance I cannot recommend an SSD enough.
I started a new Live 8 session as Live 9 still has a few bugs that need fixing so I thought it would be better to use the more stable 8 version. I created a midi track with an instance of Massive with the '1991' patch on it & started duplicating it. At 20 tracks it was playing all instances fine, at 25 I was hearing some crackles & pops here & there...bit like one instance of the virus plug in, Lol. At 30 instances it was beginning to get too much & the fan on the processor started to gear up. Still not bad for a laptop computer I don't think. Watching the video, which was extremely painful & tedious ( just duplicate the track already ) I noticed that around a dozen instances it started to lose it. It also reminded me of why I would never go back to any of these programs or a PC for that matter, ugly cluncky shit if you ask me. Your issues probably are related to your soundcard as you say, hope this helps.

Thanks for doing the test, the results sound about right for a laptop, but that does highlight one reason I like desktops for home use -- heat issues and airflow are a big factor.

But whatever you do, don't think that video is representative of modern PCs. First off is the fact that he is running XP, an antiquated version of Cubase (new versions look better), and either he is dealing with a config problem like I currently am or his PC has about one third the power of a typical modern $500 PC. He also apparently doesn't realize he can just hit Alt-C to clone the instance of Massive in FLStudio, he could have done all that in 2-3 seconds (maybe he was doing it the slow way for sake of the video). I've got one foot in the Mac world and one foot in the PC world, so I could write a lot of stuff good and bad about both. For now at least, for my studio project, I had an extra Core i7 sitting around that needed a home, and comparing that to the cost of an equivalent Mac Pro setup was a no brainer. I think a lot of people still remember XP when they think of Windows. When I compare Windows 7 or 8 to OSX I think OS X feels clunky.. lol. Maybe its whatever you're used to.

[MBTC]

PROBLEM SOLVED!!

Once I physically removed the Creative X-Fi XTreme PCI sound card, I am able to comfortably run 35+ instances of the above Massive test with no popping.

It seems that this PC just had too many audio interfaces (the sound card, the Saffire Pro24, the UltraNova interface, etc). The Creative card was in this system because it is a spare development PC I had laying around. It has a good Core i7 processor and plenty of RAM so I was trying to save a buck by re-commissioning an older PC to be my music, and for a while I thought that plan wasn't going to work. Thank god it wasn't a Windows 8 issue. I had tried disabling the Creative card via control panel, and it was showing it as disabled, but apparently that wasn't enough.

I'm thrilled with Cubase as my primary DAW for the time being... I'm already finding the hardware CMC controllers indispensible, but I do plan to re-visit Ableton now that I know the earlier popping problems were not entirely due to differences in DAW.

[Berni]

Originally Posted by MBTC

PROBLEM SOLVED!!

Once I physically removed the Creative X-Fi XTreme PCI sound card, I am able to comfortably run 35+ instances of the above Massive test with no popping.

It seems that this PC just had too many audio interfaces (the sound card, the Saffire Pro24, the UltraNova interface, etc). The Creative card was in this system because it is a spare development PC I had laying around. It has a good Core i7 processor and plenty of RAM so I was trying to save a buck by re-commissioning an older PC to be my music, and for a while I thought that plan wasn't going to work. Thank god it wasn't a Windows 8 issue. I had tried disabling the Creative card via control panel, and it was showing it as disabled, but apparently that wasn't enough.

I'm thrilled with Cubase as my primary DAW for the time being... I'm already finding the hardware CMC controllers indispensible, but I do plan to re-visit Ableton now that I know the earlier popping problems were not entirely due to differences in DAW.

Glad you got it figured out. I was actually going to suggest taking the soundcards out of the equation & see how you go but you already got there. I would however question your preference of Cubase over Live as I don't think you gave Live enough time & it does take a while to get your head around the whole concept but once you do & start to realize the creative possibilities it has then all the other DAW's seem lacking. There are so many things it can do that non of the others can.
At the end of the day it's what works for you so go make some music!

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

Glad you got it figured out. I was actually going to suggest taking the soundcards out of the equation & see how you go but you already got there. I would however question your preference of Cubase over Live as I don't think you gave Live enough time & it does take a while to get your head around the whole concept but once you do & start to realize the creative possibilities it has then all the other DAW's seem lacking. There are so many things it can do that non of the others can.
At the end of the day it's what works for you so go make some music!

Earlier, I mentioned that my preference might be rooted in Cubase for Atari ST circa 1988. I cut my MIDI teeth on the Atari ST, boards like Kawai K5, Yamaha TX81Z and DX7, Korg M3 etc., but the Atari ST and it's built-in MIDI had no equal at the time, and Cubase was the sequencer of choice. It looks almost nothing like it did back then but I guess there is some aspect of the workflow that "feels like home" to me, if that makes sense?

FLStudio always seemed to have a "get there quick" workflow for certain things, but there is something about the way it disjoints patterns from the mixer, particularly for doing simple things like freezing tracks, is counter-intuitive to me.

There were some things I liked instantly about Live, but I just like the overall feel of Cubase for now. I will keep the Live 8 Lite edition installed, as well as the Live 9 trial, and keep coming back to them over time. Consensus seems to be that Cubase is more CPU efficient, and this seems to be the case on my system but the difference is much less dramatic now that I've got things set up properly (maybe 10% or so better on Cubase... not enough to justify a switch, but I can certainly put that extra 10% to good use).

Almost all DAWs really do fundamentally the same thing, it just comes down to individual preferences. The CMC controllers for Cubase are fantastic, and I'm going to miss them whenever I'm working in FLStudio or Ableton so Steinberg did a good thing getting me hooked to those. They do a good job of making the DAW more musical by keeping your hands off the mouse and keyboard. At least now I have no shortage of DAWs installed, properly configured, and at least partially learned . Tallying it all up, I now have: Cubase, FLStudio, Live8 Lite, Live9 in trial mode all on the PC, and Logic Pro on the Mac. If I can't make some music now, it can't be for lack of host options!

One thing nice about multiple hosts is that if something's not working in one, you can always drop out and try it in another. Why do I have a feeling that's going to come in handy whenever I get another Virus?

[Berni]

Originally Posted by MBTC

Earlier, I mentioned that my preference might be rooted in Cubase for Atari ST circa 1988. I cut my MIDI teeth on the Atari ST, boards like Kawai K5, Yamaha TX81Z and DX7, Korg M3 etc., but the Atari ST and it's built-in MIDI had no equal at the time, and Cubase was the sequencer of choice. It looks almost nothing like it did back then but I guess there is some aspect of the workflow that "feels like home" to me, if that makes sense?

FLStudio always seemed to have a "get there quick" workflow for certain things, but there is something about the way it disjoints patterns from the mixer, particularly for doing simple things like freezing tracks, is counter-intuitive to me.

There were some things I liked instantly about Live, but I just like the overall feel of Cubase for now. I will keep the Live 8 Lite edition installed, as well as the Live 9 trial, and keep coming back to them over time. Consensus seems to be that Cubase is more CPU efficient, and this seems to be the case on my system but the difference is much less dramatic now that I've got things set up properly (maybe 10% or so better on Cubase... not enough to justify a switch, but I can certainly put that extra 10% to good use).

Almost all DAWs really do fundamentally the same thing, it just comes down to individual preferences. The CMC controllers for Cubase are fantastic, and I'm going to miss them whenever I'm working in FLStudio or Ableton so Steinberg did a good thing getting me hooked to those. They do a good job of making the DAW more musical by keeping your hands off the mouse and keyboard. At least now I have no shortage of DAWs installed, properly configured, and at least partially learned . Tallying it all up, I now have: Cubase, FLStudio, Live8 Lite, Live9 in trial mode all on the PC, and Logic Pro on the Mac. If I can't make some music now, it can't be for lack of host options!

One thing nice about multiple hosts is that if something's not working in one, you can always drop out and try it in another. Why do I have a feeling that's going to come in handy whenever I get another Virus?

Yeah I hear ya on all counts & true it is good to have a few options. I have Live, Pro tools & the Maschine so if something isn't working in one then see how you go in a different DAW. With all the different DAW's & plug in formats, not to mention platforms there are bound to be lots of variation.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Berni

Yeah I hear ya on all counts & true it is good to have a few options. I have Live, Pro tools & the Maschine so if something isn't working in one then see how you go in a different DAW. With all the different DAW's & plug in formats, not to mention platforms there are bound to be lots of variation.

I forgot to add Maschine to the list of DAWs, but yeah it definitely counts as one. I tend to use it sort of like a plug-in, but it can be a host all in itself. Cubase has a couple of plug-ins, one called Groove Agent (like a 16 pad drum machine that has a bunch of kits) and another called Beat Designer (like a step sequencer with cool editing features), that I may look into at some point, but I still like using Maschine for everything beat related. I keep the Maschine editor open on a secondary monitor, separate from the main host screen, then when I put something together I like I drop the audio into the host, rinse and repeat. I still have barely scratched the surface of what Maschine can do, I plan to revisit that one very soon as I plan to use it for pretty much all sampling needs.