Am newbie, need basic help regarding midi setup (sorry!)

[hankdennemann]

Hello all:

Weekend musician. Just bought a TI Desktop, first Access product I've owned, love it, can't believe I haven't gotten into the analog game sooner.

Never had two pieces of gear that I have had to sync together before. I am controlling the TI with a Korg Triton Extreme. I have midi in/out from the computer to the Triton, with Midi Through going to the TI. It occured to me that I need a midi out going from the TI to the computer, though, to record the controller changes.

So, should my setup be: Computer midi out to Triton In, Triton Out to TI In, and TI Out to computer In? I have tried that, but when I go to record, nothing comes into the system.

I am using Sonar. I set everything to midi sync, and I have to press start and stop on the Triton sequencer to get Sonar to start recording/playback (which I think is normal).

But I am having a hard time getting the right setup for the Access. I know this is basic, but can someone tell me how it should be done and what TI settings should be made to make sure that it takes the midi sync from the Triton?

Thank you SO MUCH in advance for the help.

--Hank

[Doc Jones]

hi hank, how come you don't use the usb port for all of your midi transfers to the TI? (or does the viruscontrol not work with sonar?) For example with my system, I use a virus TI desktop and use a Korg Kontrol 49 as the midi controller. In cubase, I select the korg 49 as the midi in port and the Virus TI as the midi out port so that when I press a key on the korg, the midi data is sent to cubase (and recorded) as well as sent out to the TI, which immediately sends audio back into cubase.

[hankdennemann]

Hi Doc:

You guessed it, Viruscontrol does not open in Sonar with the VST adapter, so I am using the TI via MIDI only. Also, I am running everything in Win 98 because my computer card interface is an Oasys PCI, which does not have XP drivers.

[Doc Jones]

ah ok. I starting using midi patch bays when I had multiple sound modules so this would be just a guess. Midi out from the Triton to midi in of the computer (to record what you play). Midi out from the computer to midi in on the TI and midi through on the TI to midi in on the Triton. This way you form a loop so that the midi is sent from the daw to each device and each device can send midi data to the daw through the loop. Now if memory serves me correctly, you will have to assign the TI and the Triton separate Device IDs so that they know which stream of midi data is for them. Then in Sonar for each track you set the midi channel and device id? Again, this is just a guess - or better yet, pick up a patch bay

[Mister Orange]

Hi there Hank. Since it's the weekend, thought I might just catch you playing with your TI.

Sounds like you've almost got it, but not quite. Firstly though, you don't mention how many midi ins and outs your computer's midi interface (or sound card) has. If it only has one in and one out, a good bit of advice is to score yourself a more verstatile midi interface. For example, mine has four outs and two ins.

For the time being though, and for the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to assume your computer only has one midi out and one midi in.

You need to keep the same setup as you had with just your Triton - that is; Triton out to computer in and computer out to Triton in. To add the Virus to the setup, simply connect the midi thru on your Triton to the midi in on the Virus (or as Doc Jones suggested - no difference). So now (providing the computer is switched on of course) the keyboard on your Triton can control either its own synth section, or the Virus via midi channel selection.

In order for Sonar to record the knob movements on your TI as well as note data from your Triton's keyboard is maybe less straightforward, and you have several options:

* Unplug the midi out from the Triton and plug it into the Virus's midi out instead.

* Buy (or solder up yourself) a simple midi switch that can flip-flop between both

* Get yourself a USB midi interface (or soundcard) that has two (or more) midi inputs. For example, Emagic MT4. M-Audio 2x2, Edirol UM-2C, etc. This is my preferred method.

* Get a midi merge box that can merge the midi data from the Virus and the Triton into one midi stream. (These aren't particularly cheap by the way and a new midi interface may well be a better investment).

* Get a midi patchbay, as Doc Jones suggested. Might be a bit of an overkill though, given that you only have two devices.

In terms of midi sync (preumably to get the Virus arpeggios to run in time), I'm not familiar with Sonar, but hopefully it will pass on the midi timecode it receives from the Triton at its midi out. May need some settings adjusting in order to achieve this - dunno. Otherwise, you may need to control your sequences from the computer instead.

Finally, my understanding of device IDs is that they are usually used for system exclusive data, and are not normally involved in general sequencing operations. Different devices are typically split by midi channel, in much the same way as different parts within your Triton are split by midi channel also. Doc Jones was probably referring to the operation of his patchbay, which may have assigned device IDs to do its job effectively. Dunno.

Hope this has been useful.

Mr O

[hankdennemann]

Doc:

How do I set the Device ID in the Virus?

I set up my system the way you suggested, and now everything is in sync! But, I can't get the knobs on the Access to send Midi data to the sequencer. The Sequencer is only taking controller data from the Triton. Any ideas?

--Chris

[hankdennemann]

Mr. O:

Thank you for the response! I actually was playing with the TI, so missed your post before I posted the message right above.

I think you have answered every question I have, including the new one: how do I get the TI's controller data to be recorded by the computer. I think I am going to look into the USB option.

And yes, you are right, I only have 1 midi in and 1 midi out, via a gameport (I am old school).

I love the TI. I can't believe I haven't gone to analog emulation sooner. The sounds on the TI are so much more complicated and beautiful than the rompler crap on the triton. Now I know why you gear heads keep carrying on and on and on and on about the virus and the voyager, etc.

Really, though, appreciate the previous post. It is hard to find basic information online because everyone presumes that you know the basics. Those of use who are playing catch-up need a little more help.

[Mister Orange]

Just for some immediate fun though, go for the easy option. Record some note data into Sonar, running a TI patch. Then do the "old school" technique of unplugging the midi out from your Triton and plugging it in the midi out of your Virus. Now record those knob twiddles on a separate track (same channel - separate track), and then play back both tracks for the whole modulated pattern. You might find you don't need any more than this.

Don't forget to check out Edit Config > Knob Behaviour page on the Virus, and set 'Target' to Midi. Personally, I only set this to 'Midi' when I want to actually record something, otherwise I leave it to 'Internal' to save overloading the midi stream when I'm just muckin' around.

And yes, I agree, this is one hellava wicked synth. I am still in awe.

Mr O

[Doc Jones]

Originally Posted by hankdennemann

Doc:

How do I set the Device ID in the Virus?

I set up my system the way you suggested, and now everything is in sync! But, I can't get the knobs on the Access to send Midi data to the sequencer. The Sequencer is only taking controller data from the Triton. Any ideas?

--Chris

Hi Chris, I think Mr O was right in that the device id is probably just for the sysex. I'm guessing with the loop that you had setup, you would have to share the 16 midi channels between the two synths. Unplugging the cable and plugging in the one from which to record knob movements is actually the way I used to do it as well, before I got my midex.

[hankdennemann]

I can't help but realize the irony in all of this.

When I was 13, in 1988, my father and I saved up and bought me probably the first midi (1 in, 1 out) interface for an old 286 computer of mine. I had Cakewalk version 1.0. The interface was something like $400 (it cost almost as much as the computer), and I saved all of my data on those huge 5.5 inch floppies. Quantize was a newer function then, I believe, and I was using a Yamaha DX 11 (which I never did learn how to program) as my only synth.

And I thought I was cutting edge. At least for the home user. Now, nearly twenty years later, I haven't advanced much, and I find myself taking advice to swap cables to record midi data. What is this, 1990????

Lol. Thank you, Doc and Mr. O, for the advice. I am likely going to pick up a 2x2 midi interface this week, so I can avoid the swapping cable problem.

You think that you have heard the last of me, but I am very good at surfacing with new questions. Now that I know both of you have good graces, I will attempt to exhaust them every time I need to.

Till next time...

--Hank