Winter NAMM 2014 gear (all manufacturers)

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

what's boring is Roland's take on their own legacy, but don't piss on the legacy itself, let alone with some generalizations, kind of offensive really, about psytrance and associating it with drugs or brain damage. your taste is your taste, just don't think it's science and it will all be fine, ok?

I'm still pissed at Roland for using the name Jupiter on the Jupiter-80. Desecration of their own brand. They should have just continued with Fantom or some new name or whatever instead of muddying the waters and making real Jupiters indistinguishable from ROMpler garbage in conversation.

[Berni]

So I couldn't resist downloading the Rebirth app for my iPad today. It's a holiday here in the states (presidents day) & I had nothing better to do but lay in my back garden & drink beer (yeah it's tough living in south florida this time of year) I cranked up my wireless speaker & proceeded to annoy the shit out of my neighbors for several hours with some 303, 808, 909 action. Oh what fun...forgot how cool this program is.
So for around $2000 + you can get an original 303 on ebay in reasonable condition, although they all seem to be from japan so there authenticity is questionable.
For $3-700 you can get a re-model box.
For around $70 you can get a VST plug in or for $15 you can get this iPad app that has 2 303's & an 808 & a 909 plus sequencer & FX.
Here's some snippets of the demo songs I recorded straight off the iPad with Ozone 5 preset on the master bus to give it a boost if anyone is interested...

http://soundcloud.com/dj-berni-2/rebirth-for-ipad-demos

@Tweak...calm down you hippy, I was in Goa in India at the start of trance so PLEASE don't tell me about the 303 or PSYCHEDELIC TRANCE for that matter, the name of the genre is a bit of a dead giveaway even if I didn't know any better, which I do.

[TweakHead]

everything calm down here, captain!

playing loud music to annoy neighbors is something we hippies respect!

no problem, feel free to tell stories of those times. you have my ears and interest eheh

will take a listen to the tune

[TweakHead]

that's very cool! like the middle part a lot! could be made into a full song! Roland genre XD music from back when they were good! the last part, the intro feels like Prodigy music kind of vibe, real nice to

[Berni]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

that's very cool! like the middle part a lot! could be made into a full song! Roland genre XD music from back when they were good! the last part, the intro feels like Prodigy music kind of vibe, real nice to

Yeah like my post say's these are just samples of some of the demo tracks. What I was trying to get at was could any of the purist's out there (if they exist) could tell if this was something made with a $15 iPad app or several hundreds (maybe thousands) of dollars worth of hardware & also after hearing it would you still want to fork out $500 for the new TR-8 which does not include the 303 re-model TB-3 which will cost you an additional $300?
If I broke down the seperate instruments from rebirth into seperate channels in my DAW & give them some nice eq, reverb, delay, compression etc. I reckon I could get them sounding close enough to the REAL thing that hardly anyone (including the 'purists') would know the difference.
Also with this app you can use modified versions of the drum machines giving you even more possibilities. Should have posted a link in the last post...

http://www.rebirthapp.com/rebirth-for-ipad/

[TweakHead]

Yeah, I think many people that get the XOXBOX are also running hardware setups where the sequencer might come handy, since it comes with both CV and Midi these days, even the Virus might be fun to control with such a sequencer.

I think you could and probably would get away with that test. Only thing to add to what you're saying would probably be some emulations of distortion, maybe even stomp boxes for guitars with some automation going. With a good crafted mix, people would certainly be unable to tell the difference I think. I like the D16 group's plug-ins a lot, made some retro style music once, will check if I still have it on some hard drive - probably do; but I've mixed those a bit, like you're saying. It's a cool exercise to just accept the limitations of those units of the past and play with them like you did here, one can easily forget how narrowing the options down a bit can enhance one's creativity. I think part of the success of these devices was that, you really had to play with what you got.

Also, the virus can sound incredibly close to the TB and with some processing on tops, I highly doubt that anyone would tell to, granted you'd need to sequence the notes in a teebee kind of fashion and enable velocity to filter cuttoff for the accent, and that sort of thing. I mean, even back in the day, many acid sounds would come from the SH 101, or original Bass Station, don't think any of those guys got beer thrown at them for not using the real toy...

That tendency is sort of coming back, mostly (I think, not really sure) here in Europe with the Euro Rack thing, see some guys going after sequencers and that way of composing, where you're left with just tweaking away while recording after the phrases are in place, sort like Berlin School music, only with an edgier touch. while many people are more then happy producing in the box, and I think those end up making more music then the others, to who gear slutz is more then just a forum, it's kind of an identity XD

and everyone should really think about this all, I mean, software is a very nice thing that's unleashed a lot of creativity worldwide and even access to the classic sounds of most genres with enough quality that no one would actually tell the difference, and even if they did, who cares anyway? if some guy can say that's not the 303 filter? that's just some nuance, a fairly small one imo...

[TweakHead]

Yesterday the SH 101 plug-in for the System 1 (Roland's AIRA series) has been released. I watched a bit of the presentation online, there was an interesting part with some veterans going over old stories and their favourite classic equipment - obviously focusing on Roland stuff, but not only.

Well, the advantages for such a platform are as follows:

1. Software you can use without the hardware.
2. Hardware control of the software.
3. Software automation (recording and editing) from that control.
4. Preset storage and management in software.
5. The ability to swap models on the keyboard itself, effectively turning the same hardware into different instruments.

Number 1 is where this product seems a lot different to the likes of the Virus ti. To most people this would mean that the sound is generated within the computer, and that the hardware is but a controller for it. But the hardware actually allows you to load one of this synths (currently just the system one default and now SH 101, both fairly simple architectures) and take it anywhere and use that as you would any hardware instrument.

Reason I'm mentioning this is that I was under the impression that Software and DSP based instruments are two different things when it comes to coding.

I remember one thread where I debated the idea of something within these lines with MBTC, some time ago. Main idea was that you could have some hardware instrument that could load other instruments into it, sort like the Nord Modular did.

I think they have a somewhat similar approach with this, even though it's a closed platform and one that seems fairly limited from the get go. I would lie if I say I don't like the concept though, and would like it even more if the hardware had a better interface that would allow the use of more complex instruments, something like the Nord or Reaktor or Sonic Core, with ready made blocks and modules for user assembly would also complement such an idea very well. I wonder what Native Instruments would come up with if they took this path, or Access Music...

[MBTC]

To me the premise behind plug-out sounds neat, but really I don't see a huge difference in what it fundamentally different than what the Miko/Neko stuff did from Open Labs. And, unfortunately here's how that worked out for them:

http://us.openlabs.com/2013/index.ph...egacy-hardware

What will matter more about this System 1 synth, I think to many people, will be how it works when truly integrated with the DAW in the same way the Virus TI or UltraNova integrate -- for example audio over USB with low latency, using the DAW plug-in to instantly visualize changes made on the hardware when the synth engine is running fully on the hardware, etc.

Granted, even if they take a piss and say "well if you're having latency issues you need to run the synth engine on your host computer and just use the keys and knobs as a controller", there could still be a very big benefit here that other vendors have not yet tapped. That would mean that you could potentially use the plug-in in your DAW during the initial stages of your workflow using the PC's CPU just to speed workflow along, then when the track gets busier and you need more processing power you could potentially off-load the processing to the synth, feeding it into the sound card via audio in.

However, for that to begin to excite me at all, I'd need to hear some really impressive sound demos from this little green light box, which I haven't heard yet.

I also don't like buying anything based on a promise of how good it's going to be some day in the future. The SH 101 module is not yet released so nobody can review it, I haven't heard how much Roland plans to charge for each module, there's no guarantee the module will be authentic, and nobody knows which modules will really be available. Like most things, if there isn't a strong revenue stream tied to the modules, Roland is not going to spend a lot of money doing the hard part (making the software synth sound top notch).

So I think it will be another 2-3 years before I can really look at the System 1 and say whether or not it's something I'm remotely interested in.

[TweakHead]

I didn't mean this product looks interesting to me. The concept is good fuel for thought though

I agree that the value of it is highly dependant on promises and, even, that Roland has a bad history of failing to deliver. They did it with VariOS and the V-synth, and they will presumably do so with this one, but only time will tell. This is a point where Access Music does deliver more then usual. Most companies fail to add those extra features even when they're advertised on their release, many are haunted with bugs for life because there's no incentive going back to older products and perfecting them, but on placing new ones to get new money from new costumers.

What I like is this capacity to "off load the processing to the synth" while still retaining sample accurate timing. On another note, for anyone with analogue synths, Expert Sleepers is worth a look, since it enables you to use any instrument with CV inputs with sample accurate timing (I kid you not), plus a bunch of other stuff - check ES-4

I don't think you'll need 2 or 3 years to really appreciate System 1. The physical interface isn't exactly vast, and I highly doubt you'll ever see an instrument with more then two oscillators coming out for it. The Nord Modular had a similar principle: you could load different instruments on the hardware, but then they were presets, not a firmware reset (like plug-out apparently does) and you could build your own instruments combining ready made modules - so that's my definition of versatility. Under the premise that this new digital technology can reproduce the old one to the point it's indistinguishable, we're presented with fairly simple stuff with borrowed hype from the old classics.

Despite all this, I have to admit it does sound good to my ears but could never ever justify getting one. It's still VA even if you give it another name, and it's way beyond the competition in terms of features. You've seen simple analogue synths, you've seen feature rich VAs like the Virus and Nords, now there's more of both, but here comes Roland with a digital synth that's as simple in architecture as simple mono synths from the past... At least they should give you all of them in one package: all the junos, jp, etc.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

At least they should give you all of them in one package: all the junos, jp, etc.

If I thought they would come out with an authentic sounding Jupiter or JP-8080 plug for it, then I might be all on board. But they don't even do real Jupiters with their Jupiters these days.