The musicians are almost extinct

[Juho L]

Originally Posted by waxahachie

Sure, you can spend your money in whatever you want like a nice car and big ass sport but if you try to drive this car like a rally driver on professional way like you said you will have a bad ending, you can buy it but you will dont drive this car like a crazy mother $%^&^ or you get a ticket in every corner and go to the jail for sure that without mention if you kill somebody on the crazy way. The big diference is one keyboard is not a "weapon" like a car is in literal terms, that car you are talking about if for show what you have. Only if you keyboard is for show you are right. With the keyboard only looks ridiculus only making noises, just for fun is ok but where is the music?

Your analogy is rather crippled there. I'd approach the situation from sports. Spending 600 euros on hockey equipment doesn't make you a hockey player and give you that hockey ass ladies drool after. Hoho. Same goes with music gear, although playing around with synths is much more fun than hanging around in a full hockey gear. But like you later mentioned:

I created this thread trying to motivate to the people who dont read music or play to advance foward because im not more that you and you are not more than me but one thing is for sure, if you can feed youself you can play piano.

And this is indeed a really good point! It's actually quite a short step from just playing around to actually making music with ease. Hell, even couple piano/keyboard lessons with a good teacher wouldn't hurt. One month of intensive piano lessons is only around 80 euros or even less and you'll learn a lot (if the teacher is good, that is), not only in playing but also in music theory. So insted of thinking getting another FX unit or something other crap, invest the money in playing lessons. I guarantee that you won't regret it!

Is too much difference between I have something and I know use it, I saw guys make amazing thing with a $200 Casio, money can not buy talent or skills my friend.

One of the most funniest experiences was when I saw one pal to play Super Mario theme with the coin FX and all on a wintage 80's Casio home keyboard. It was awesome! Hoho. Great stuff indeed.

Money open the door for learn and if you have money and you dont learn is because you are lazy if is your case dont complain, just learn, is up to you, the embarrazment is yours.

Every one learns, more or less. It's just a matter of motivation. I think that if everyone who put >1000 euros on gear would also invest some in music lessons then we would have a hell lot of more interesting music around.

Originally Posted by IamEvil

Why don't you worry about your own music rather than bleeting on an internet forum about these "talentless" knob twiddling individuals with better equipment than you?

Hey, the point here is to stirr discussion and bring up a "forgotten" viewpoints. As I said, it's easy to get really started on music and expand the synth hobby from knob tweaking to actual fun and rewarding music making.

Originally Posted by spindlenine

I think it goes without saying that the proliferation of computer-based music tools and loop-based platforms has seriously lowered the barrier to entry for regular old people (like me) to make "music." On the whole, I think this is a Good Thing (TM), but it does mean that there will be a lot more people out there who are able to record unfathomable noise at the same fidelity that professional musicians enjoy and claim that it is music.

This is a good point. The threshold to acquiring decent studio is indeed lowered, but it has also deceived some people to think that it has also lowered the treshold of making music. Afterall machine is just a machine. Now here we can use the car analogy more efficiently: A car needs a driver.

But I'm certainly not judging; I have loads of pro-audio equipment I have collected over the years, and I have never even finished writing a single song. But after a long day at the office, I love coming home and twiddling knobs and making sounds. I may not be a fabulous musician or composer but I do know enough about synthesizers to enjoy what they let me do with sound, and I know enough about the piano to play melodies and tunes that allow me to enjoy the instruments.

And now I command you to take heed of my advice and take some of your freetime to go to few music lessons. Go and come back wiser than ever! There's nothing I could recommend you more.

Anecdotally, I actually got my TI because I always lose inspiration when the technology starts getting in the way of the music-making process (we've all been there...). The TI seems to integrate so seamlessly, which is awesome. I recently upgraded to Logic Express 8 as well, which has a much better UI than older versions, so I hope to find it less frustrating. This is sort of my "final stab" at making music a bit more serious of a hobby, so I'm hoping the tools have matured sufficiently to let me finally do that.

Technology. Ah, the sweet technology. That satan was the thing that crippled my creativity. When I was forced to work with almost zero technology, the golden ages of trackers, I made about one track a month. Sometimes even one trac a week! Then I got older and got some serious money to spend on gear and what happened... Three to four tracks a year, tops. And no, it wasn't better quality over quantity in terms of musicality in contrast to my previous tracker stuff. The technology just crippled my creativity. Just simple embarrassment of riches. I spend the most time doing useless shit like tweaking sounds and deciding what kind of FX i put there instead of putting the most effort in the music itself like in the old days. Technology can be your friend but it's also a dreadful enemy. Beware boys and girls.

Originally Posted by Ceri JC

Indeed, what would you say Squarepusher is when he alternating between playing his bass guitar and controlling a drum machine in time to someone else's record which he is playing on a turntable?

Just a wild guess: A musician because he's playing a bass?

Out of interest, where would you put turntabilists in the definition;

A good turntablism is art and, indeed, music. This is when you turn the turntable into a musical instrument. It's not always the tool used, it's about the way the tool is used.

It's like a sampler: You can play one loop from it and that's it. An instrument used to somethin that's not actually playing anything. It's like an inversion of that turntable question.

On a related note, the main reason I'm currently re-learning to play the violin is to finally record a version of a track I wrote a few years back (for 3 synthetic violin parts) on 'proper' electric violins, exactly as I want it. Would I bother if I had free access to 3 professional violinists I could communicate with effectively enough to get it exactly as I wanted? Probably not; I enjoy the 'production' side more and am better at it. Criticising people for this is akin to saying an architect is in some way inferior to a builder because the latter actually makes the building. I'd say they both play their part.

Playing is not the thing that makes a musician. A composer is also a musician. For example I do a lots of stuff that I would be ablo to actually play unless I'd intensively train for months. The whole idea in music is that it's versatile. You can play, you can compose, you can sing. There is no actual definition for musicality.