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-   -   Waldorf Kyra (http://www.infekted.org/virus/showthread.php?t=34646)

MBTC 07.10.2019 03:05 PM

Waldorf Kyra
 
Walkdorf just shipped their first batch of synths. Should be interesting to see the reviews and watch it develop. I personally think FPGA synths could be one of those technologies that has a substantial impact on the music landscape.

https://waldorfmusic.com/en/kyra

(Decided to move this out of the Valkyrie/Exodus thread to reflect new name)

Timo 09.10.2019 09:04 PM

Should certainly be interesting. Wasn't impressed with the demo video, at all, but I think that's potentially more a limitation of whoever programmed those patches, rather than the hardware itself. You'd need to find what the Kyra's strength is and what it is good at, what it can do that others can't. Often it's the quirks that make hardware a classic/killer, rather than the bread and butter sounds we've all made and heard before.

oli@bass 10.10.2019 08:53 AM

IMO, the Kyra is a bag of missed opportunities for a newly designed synth, and I don't see anything the Virus TI2 can't do or isn't even better at. Killer for me:

- No DAW intergration (and Waldorf leaves that to third party developers, which didn't work for the Blofeld either)
- Only 8 Parts
- No unison
- No user waves
- USB 2.0 for multi channel 96kHz audio streaming. That's the same sort of mistake that was made with the Virus (which effectively runs at USB 1.1 speed). The problem is not the single unit, but all those devices together sharing the USB bus.
- Limited effects, especially missing distortion types

MBTC 11.10.2019 08:54 PM

Although I won't come to any conclusions until I've seen a LOT more real-world reviews, I think the selling point of the Kyra is that FPGA offers a much more powerful synth.

For example, from the manual:
"Effects: Nine module stereo effects unit per Part with a 3-band shelving EQ, a FormantFilter, 5-mode Distortion module, dual Limiters, stereo delay module, 6-stage Phaser with dedicated stereo multishape LFO, Chorus/Flanger module supporting comb and doubling effects and a Reverb module. All 72 effects modules can be used simultaneously without affecting polyphony

https://support.waldorfmusic.com/fil...anual%20EN.pdf

With regard to unison, you can stack up to 20 sounds in dual mode and or layer them (more on this in the manual).

Most of the early reviews I saw of the Kyra commented on things like killer polyphony, killer reverb tails, etc. At the same time, every Virus owner I've ever talked to on the matter feels it sounds great with one or two sounds at a time but is a very polyphony starved synth. It's not the fault of the Virus, it is based on older Motorola DSP chips that were good stuff in their day, it's just that their day was 20 years ago and Kemper hasn't kept up.

I agree with the USB 2.0 implementation though -- not sure what they were thinking there.

Timo 11.10.2019 11:12 PM

I think the perceived standalone quality and clarity of the algorithms in isolation, such as the oscillators, filters and effects, et al, are more important.

You can have all the polyphony in the world, but if the algorithms are sterile added unison/poly won't make it sound any better, it'll just end up a cacophonous wall of noise.

Even with the Virus, cranking up the poly can make stuff sound convoluted. Dialing back the poly/unison brings back clarity.

Less really can be more.

I look forward to hearing other demos.

MBTC 11.10.2019 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo (Post 307188)
I think the perceived standalone quality and clarity of the algorithms in isolation, such as the oscillators, filters and effects, et al, are more important.

You can have all the polyphony in the world, but if the algorithms are sterile added unison/poly won't make it sound any better, it'll just end up a cacophonous wall of noise.

Even with the Virus, cranking up the poly can make stuff sound convoluted. Dialing back the poly/unison brings back clarity.

Less really can be more.

I look forward to hearing other demos.

For me, poly and unison aren't necessarily intertwined (except in the sense that more unison = less polyphony). Note-stealing is just one of my personal peeves I guess. If I want a release of a certain duration on a given part, I don't want the CPU deciding to short circuit the note because it ran out of resources. Yes, too many notes with too many long releases can muddy each other up, but from a musical standpoint I want my ears to make those decisions, not compute resources.

Unision is the "fatness" of the sound, and yes sometimes less is more. But in terms of poly, to me stealing of notes is never a good thing. Physical instruments like pianos or guitars do not have polyphony limitations, and it's always been a downside of the digital age that synths do. 128 actual voices, with zero chance for contention is a pretty good selling point for a synth.

MBTC 14.10.2019 11:29 PM

I'll try to add demo vids that have been created since the unit's release as I come across them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlgiJMnWwe4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RETtniQCKs

MBTC 23.10.2019 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBTC (Post 307190)
I'll try to add demo vids that have been created since the units release as I come across them:

This one is a welcome link to add to the collection --it makes use of 6 parts of the Kyra at once:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTBtfYE1yzE

I also think to some extent it showcases the genre where Kyra or Virus really excel.

For me, my own music making has been leaning toward darkwave/synthwave/retrowave etc for the last few years, so my Prophet Rev2 16 voice is my go-to keyboard. Honestly if I bought another synth right now it would likely be a second Prophet Rev 2, because I haven't owned a synth that's more inspiring, or more completely meets my needs since the Juno 106 .... but I'm still eyeballing Kyra for a potential future purchase, and I also think it will be interesting to see if its entry into the market prompts Access to release an updated Virus.

engineer 07.11.2019 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli@bass (Post 307185)
- USB 2.0 for multi channel 96kHz audio streaming.

Hm, I do not see a generall problem with USB 2.0 since it should be possible to transport quite a large number of channels with the given bandwidth. USB devices like RME show that it is possible. The problems mostly acoour because of driver issues and chip hardware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli@bass (Post 307185)
- Limited effects, especially missing distortion types

Which do you miss in detail?

I am currently redesigning my workstation and preparing a release for electronic developers to enable them to produce their FPGA synths themselves and search for input.

oli@bass 11.11.2019 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engineer (Post 307202)
Hm, I do not see a generall problem with USB 2.0 since it should be possible to transport quite a large number of channels with the given bandwidth. USB devices like RME show that it is possible. The problems mostly acoour because of driver issues and chip hardware.


Only in theory. As I already wrote: "The problem is not the single unit, but all those devices together sharing the USB bus." USB 2 was never desinged for real time distributed mutli-channel audio.


Quote:

Originally Posted by engineer (Post 307202)
Which do you miss in detail?

I am currently redesigning my workstation and preparing a release for electronic developers to enable them to produce their FPGA synths themselves and search for input.


Different types of shapers:
- Soft Bounce (Virus)
- Hard Bounce (Virus)
- Sine Fold (Virus)
- Saw Fold (Virus)
- Triangle Fold (Virus)
- Wave Shaper (Virus)
- Parapolic Shaper (NI Massive)
- Different Types of modeled distortions (Overdrive, Tube Amp, etc)


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