TI vs JP8K: Hypersaw as bright as Supersaw (audio inside)?..
 

Hi,

I was wondering how well the TI with its new Hypersaw can emulate JP8000/8080 type sounds, like those pads that sound warm but also are very present in the high frequencies (without sounding too harsh).

Here's a sweeping JP8000 pad example to show what I mean: http://users.skynet.be/soundfiles/motorcycle.mp3 (it's the pad melody from "As the rush comes" by Motorcyle). It sounds very warm, but also when the filter goes full open it has very rich, smooth high frequencies which sound very pleasing.

When trying this with a Virus C the result was always much more colder and when the filter goes fully open it doesn't have those rich high frequencies and instead sound rather harsh.

So how is that now with the TI and its hypersaw.

As a comparison test, could anybody who has a TI please try to recreate the above sound with the above melody so I can hear how well it can make those JP8000 pads and post the audio results here (wav, mp3). I would really appreciate that alot!!

Note: my local music store doesn't have a demo TI in store at this moment, so I can't demo it. That's why I am asking for good audio demos from you guys.

Thanks alot! :)

Note: I have updated this message. Hopefully my question is more clear now and will I get better replies now! Thanks!

I'd say play a TI and use patch ROM-M 63 Ld StrngzMS.

Adjust the delay feedback and send to suit and its 98% the same sound.
Maybe untune the detune a bit. MS always likes the DETUNE the german way.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply! Problem is that my local music store doesn't have a demo model in the store right now (probably because of all the orders they have for that model I suppose).

Therefore, could anybody who already has the TI play the above melody with the TI (and perhaps use the patch mentioned by the previous poster and adjust it so it sounds like the sound I requested above) and post a high quality audio file (wav,mp3) of it here. I would REALLY appreciate that!

Thanks alot! :)

PS: let me know if you have no upload space for the file.

I'm at work right now, so I can't do as you ask, but I also found a preset on the Virus that was really close to that sample, but a different one than is listed above. I mean, it didn't sound identical, but in terms of the general sound of it, they were very similar. I don't think you need to worry about the Virus not being able to produce JP series sounds...

I'm working on it m8! I have the melody down in cubase on repeat and the sound you asked to use. It's close but not the same but i think it can be done. How much is it worth? lol :wink:

Could you please post a high quality audio file (mp3 or something) then of the result so I can hear it and also mention which patch you used and what changes you made, so that when a demo TI is available again in my local music store I can program it that way! I wonder if the hypersaw of the Virus when the filter goes open can sound as warm as the JP8000 cause in lots of mp3 demos they sound harsh when full open, but maybe that had to with the programming or something..

I would also appreciate it if you could post the patch so that when the demo TI is available again in the store I can quickly load it in and start playing. That would help me alot! Thanks! :)

I didn't save any of the work I did, but I did compare an open hyper saw playing the same melody and I wouldn't say it sounds harsher. They sounded quite similar, in terms of general tone. I just hadn't the ear to try simulate the modulations in the supplied pad...but, yeah, an open filter on a hypersaw sounds like the right starting point.

8) Ok this is what you asked for. Played on the Virus TI. Same patch as noted above with some tweaks.

This sample also shows a problem with pops and clicks with the TI and this patch. I'm not sure what?s going on but I had to give up on it in the end as one of the OSC's started to do some strange LFO and tuning.
If you want to pay me for it thats fine lol. I could get even closer to your sound if not for these bugs :roll:

http://bryncoedstudio.bulldoghome.co...Popsclicks.mp3

it works now, just copy the whole address with the pop click.mp3 bit!

The link still doesn't work.. could you please post the correct full link? Thanks!

My OSC on this patch is is trying to turn into Donald Duck for some reason. :lol:

Like I said a year ago, you cannot do the JP8k supersaw pads or leads with Virus TI's hypersaw. They sound totally different.

You said that a year ago before the TI was even out? before anyone had even heard it? Thats really strange..

Can we have this weeks loto numbers while your here? why not give us next years loto as well. cheers :lol:

Dont tell me you have a jp8000 and no TI.

I'm almost done moving to my new place so it might take a couple of days before I can record something but I will look into that(I own both jp8080 and virusTI) :)

I found a better patch for it! (ROM-MM 82 PWFattty MS) :wink:
Sounds very nice tweaked and played TD style 8)

Hi,

Could you all please post more audio demos of the results you get with the TI so I can compare with the JP8000 demo mentioned in the first message. Just posting preset numbers alone doesn't help alot as my local music store doesn't have a demo TI in store at this moment, so I can't demo it. That's why I am asking for good audio demos from you guys.

But if you do post audio demos, it's a good idea to also post info like which patch you used and which alterations you made etc..

Thanks alot! :)

Could you please post a good audio demo so I can hear and compare the result with the JP8000 demo posted in first message? Thanks! :)

I did one with that ROM-M 63 Ld StrngzMS patch here.. http://bryncoedstudio.bulldoghome.co...Popsclicks.mp3

But i think the other patch (ROM-MM 82 PWFattty MS) this one sounds very close!

Does it really matter that the TI wasn't out a year ago when I said that if so many people were already talking about hypersaw killing supersaw in those days? Wasn't I allowed to say what I thought? _Nobody_ had heard the TI.

There were many threads about the TI killing JP80x0 and the hypersaw totally replacing the JP Supersaw right after Access had introduced the TI. I said that the hypersaw will NOT replace JP supersaw and definitely will not sound like supersaw but many people really thought that hypersaw will sound like JP supersaw. I haven't heard these people saying the same anymore. I wonder why...Maybe they realised that those waveforms don't sound the same afterall and these 2 synths sound totally different also because of their different sounding filters.

Even Ben Crosland didn't see much difference between TI hypersaw and JP supersaw or understood how much the filter affects the sound and why so many people like JP's filter and what is it that really makes JP to sound so unique. Finally Ben admitted that he doesn't know much about JP and what makes it sound so special in trance music (especially the filter character).

I don't have a TI , but I have alot of experience of Virus synthesizers (B, KC, Powercore) and the sound is totally different from JP and the TI's hypersaw doesn't sound much different. And one thing is still sure, it doesn't sound like JP supersaw. And the filter is the final thing which makes it sound totally different also when you're not opening or closing the cutoff. I have a JP and many other synths and I know how to program those trance pads and leads so I am very familiar with what we're talking about here.

Virus can do great leads and pads for trance but it doesn't sound like JP. In fact I don't even see a point trying to make it sound like a JP because you can buy a real JP with less than a half of the TI's price and you'll get the great original sound immediately. :)

I listened to the "popsclick.mp3" and it's a good sound but also a good example where you hear that the virus lacks the highest frequencies even when the cutoff is open. The PWFatty-patch uses PWM pulses, not saw waves. If you want to get close to the original JP sound, you must use saw waves and unison. 2 saw oscillators with 7 voice unison or 2 hypersaws are good to start with.

At 19-20 seconds that Ti demo doesnt sound right....you got some warbling tuning issue with that patch. Anyone else hear it?

PS - why do people keep wanting the Virus' hypersaw to emulate a JP's supersaw? I dont think its possible because the oscilators and filters have a totally different tone.

DS

Finally somebody who understands what I mean. :D

Hi,

Why do I hope that the TI with its hyersaw can emulate the JP8000? Simple, the JP8000 isn't available anymore and hard to get second-hand (and I don't like to buy second-hand gear cause you never know if there aren't any hidden defects in it or something), but also the JP8000 with only 2 parts multi/8 note polyphony is really outdated.

I am the first to say that I wish that Roland would have come up with a follow up to there JP8000, you know, a JP8000 with Virus specs, but this hasn't happened.

So therefore, the TI seems the only powerful synth available right now for emulating the JP8000.

Even if it can't emulate the above JP8000 demo exactly, could you at least post a demo of how close it can get. For instance, didn't Ben say in some old post that the Hypersaw would have more energy in the high frequencies etc.. I would love to hear that.. why does nobody with a TI want to even try and post good audio demos?! Is that really too much to ask?!

I hope that still somebody will try to help with my question! Many thanks! :)

Tell you what. Someone, grab a JP80x0 and TI, take off all the effects, envelopes - everything - make it completely dry. Then make two demos. One with one single Hypersaw oscillator, and one with one single Supersaw oscillator.
Then set up a small and VERY simple MIDI piece - say one different note or chord per bar, for eight bars or so - and then program the filter cutoff to open up, on its own, for both the TI and JP demos (maybe do several of the TI for each filter, ie. standard Virus filter, Moog filter, Moog 1-pole filter etc.). Finally slowly modulate the Hypersaw/Supersaw detune parameters so you can hear how that works/sounds.

Then post the results.

That'd be the fairest way to compare and analyse them, imho.

Surely we can knock up a quick MIDI file for anyone who has a TI or JP to record the raw hyper/super saw in this way?

That's what I would like to hear, but why not simply recreate the JP8000 demo song I posted above in the first message of this thread with a TI! That's why I posted it you know! :wink: It's a simple melody (2 note harmony, 1 bass note and 1 lead note).

I am really curious to see if the TI Hypersaw has as much energy in the high frequencies then the JP8000 and how warm it sounds. How close it is possible to get to the original. That was really my question.

Isn't there anybody at all with a TI here who can do this please?!! Thanks!

To your first point. People just can't be arsed to spend the time doing that.....especially when they're over worked in a studio as it is... :wink:

To your second point. Your not the only one who's been curious to find this out....and Id have to say....that from what Ive heard and know about the Virus it will not have the same energy in higher frequencies that your after. The Virus sounds warmer than a JP8000 because it has less high energy frequencies coming through!

I'd say its very unlikely the hypersaw sounds anything like the supersaw. You have to realise the both synths have very different 'sounding' oscilators and filters. If you really want the JP8000 supersaw sound....then buy one and grit your teeth to its 'limitations' and save yourself ?1000 whilst your at it. The JP is not old in historic terms......its barely 7 years old. Try buying polysynths that are 25-30yrs old.....now that really does make you second guess :wink:

Hope someone can provide the answer your looking for 8)

DS

Without doing a demo for you because as DS put it I simply cannot be arsed..... but I have owned several jp8080s and now a TI, and I can tell you the hypersaw sounds close, but not exact.....and you wont get it exact either.

The filter is noticeably different especially with a lot of res added (the TI and all other virus models goto shit when a lot of res is added) and yes its still lacking somewhat in the high freqs but its better than it was on previous models without the hyperosc. The onboard EQ helps with this aswell. Saying that though the jp80xx filter sounds more digital to me whereas the TIs is more clean and fluid.

The ssaw does sound more fuller and richer, even when the hypsersaw is at 9osc, 8 unison, full spread with delay on its still not fatter in all the senses of the word. Again tho, because of all those extra options the amount of configuribility you have with the hypersaw gives you a much larger palette to work with to alter the sound, where the 80xx is very limited. And I also think the hyper sounds more natural.....check out TI patch 'butterfly'. A lovely sounding pad similar to something Armin or rank1 would use today.

And so, you can get very close and the hypersaw can easily fill the role of the ssaw and is even better at some applications (the ssaw has a VERY dated 1999/2000 sound to it :) ) But even the best sound designer wont be able to fool the people who know the distictive jp80 ssaw sound, they are simply different beasts.

Personally if I had to choose I would go for the hyper now. Dont get me wrong, I love the 80xx sound and its been in some fantastic songs...alas the ssaw has been done to death and back now and when I hear a song with it in it just bores me (unless used it some original out of this world way - unlikely) The hyper tho has given us a lot more options for a newer sound.

ten

Okay, I'll bite. This was recorded straight from my Virus b with no other processing. I could probably get a lot closer to the original if I used external processing (i.e. EQ). Ironically enough, there were no saw waves used in the making of this patch :D

http://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2...C26PPOBE7TXFBZ

Peace \/
Dan
www.soundclick.com/chisel316

Hang on... Who said I used Hypersaw in the mp3?

I said I tweaked the patch, I changed all OSC's to saw and used max unison on all OSC's and turned all filters to analogue.

I never made a point that?s the Hypersaw sounded like the supersaw once. I was just replying to a request for the mp3 using that patch.

Most of the highs in the jp mp3 are reverb and effects BTW the same effect you can find on the TI but I did not have the time.

I think the mp3 I made apart from the bug's pops and clicks sounds more analogue than the jp mp3.

FSD: you are right Hypersaw does not sound like supersaw. BUT the TI can still make the same sound with its SAW's with the right tweaks!

So, absolutely no-one's going to demo the TI's raw hypersaw osc for us?

Is it that crap that you're embarassed, or something? I'm beginning to wonder...

Its because whenever people ask to hear the hypersaw they envariably want to compare it to the supersaw. Since you will never be able to make the hypersaw sound like the supersaw....why bother trying?

Its like someone asking me...'Screams....can you post a patch off the KC that sounds like a classic Jupiter 8 pad'.......I know this cant be done....so why bother?

The hypersaw is probably good in its own right. Unfairly....people keep on wishing to make these comparisons.

DS

That LdStrngzMS patch is not made with HyperSaw, and is thus not really the best choice for a comparison ;)

~+? - are you sure the pops and clicks you are hearing in this patch aren't just clipping? I'm checking it here, and it plays fine.

DS, think you got the wrong end of my stick. I too have no desire for the Hypersaw to emulate the Supersaw. I just want to actually compare, hear, and learn the differences between the two, so everyone will know how they both stand, individually. I haven't heard the TI's hypersaw in isolation (dry) yet.

Hi,

Is there anything wrong with comparing the hypersaw with the JP8000 supersaw and seeing how they compare. I posted a JP8000 demo in the first message, all I ask is if anybody can try to emulate that sound as good as possible. That's a fair question in my opinion. It has beeen said here that the hypersaw would have more energy in the high frequencies so let's hear it.

Why does nobody with a TI want to do this?! Seriously, if your TI is connected to your PC it doesn't take that much time to do it. Isn't the point of a forum trying to help each other?

Ben, why don't you want to post an audio demo of the hypersaw?! Didn't you mention in some old thread that the TI hypersaw would have more energy in the high frequencies, so please now let's hear it!

Ok gotchya :wink:

If I had a TI...... this forum would be swamped with links to sound demo's....so plz.....for god sake someone send me their TI

DS

Hi Dan,

Finally somebody who took the effort to help with my question by posting a good audio demo! Thanks for that. You programmed it well, but now I have finally heard what many people always said and that is that when the filter goes full open with the older Virus synths it lacks alot of high end.

That's the reason why I would love to hear the same from somebody with a TI to hear if the hypersaw is better regarding this. That was the hole point why I started this thread! So, anybody with a TI could PLEASE do this demo?! I would really appreciate that alot!

Thanks!! :)

Two reasons:

1) Don't have the bandwidth

2) Can't be bothered, sorry! :lol:

I still hope somebody with a TI can do the hypersaw audio demo, cause this is really frustrating! :( It's a simple request, it's not like I am asking something that is very hard to do if you have a TI. I don't understand why nobody wants to do this. :(

might do later....cant be arsed right now....watching csi and eating :)

ten

BEN, The problem I found it happens with that patch if the notes overlap! The overlapping notes also make the LFO act odd! Try the patch again with some note overlaps and start tweaking and see what happens.
:!: