waiting for polar and was wondering.....
 

yes im wondering if
i can run a project in nuendo 3 @ 24/96 (i usually work in this format)
and use the the plugin with the usb stream?

or would i have to use the analog outs for this?

*************UPDATE*****************

USING THE VC PLUGIN AND USB AUDIO STREAM DOES NOT
MANDATE WHAT SAMPLING RATE YOUR HOST MUST BE IN!

THE PLUGIN WILL PROVIDE THE APPROPRIATE AUDIO STREAM!!!!
THIS WHOLE POST IS NOW VOID.
8)
*************UPDATE*****************


:D :D :D

to clarify...

since the usb streams are 16/44
does also the project in the host have to be done @ 16/44?

if this is the case...that just plain sucks.
and quite a stupid implementation of (total intergration)

yes it is a bit disappointing that sample rate options are limited for the time being. im sure we will see the required OS update to facilitate this soon enough...

cheers

blay

so it isnt possible!

wow thats really sad 8O

it most definatly has to do with the availible bandwidth with
USB

24/96 requires more..
wonder if they have even the headroom for it :x

this makes me seriously reconsider my purchase.

hate working @ 16/44

its usb 1, should have been usb 2 instead, then itd work! Strange decission to make from access...

just u to know
that none of the big pro's aren't workin with 24/96
all work in 24/44 or 16/44
why becouse the final cd is in this format and what happens when u plays in converting 1 to another the qualety fukess up ..so all ur effort evantualy gone..
consider my post...
and maybe only maybe im wrong and it does have some advantges in it???!!!
:twisted: :twisted: :idea:

I think alot of people seem to start with everything maxed (96, 192 or whatever their computer will go upto) then over time eventually realise that it just isnt worth the hassle and slowly fall back down to 48 or even 44.1 because then the PC/Mac can handle so many more channels and is generally alot less stressed.

Most of you digital sounds sources are probably 44.1 anyway at best (digital synths). Theres quite a few outboard processors that work at 96 which is maybe useful with EQs and Enhancers, but no big deal for most fx processors.

I run Cubase SX and everything in the direct digital chain at 44.1 these days - its just so much easier and everything just works reliably - if some dodgy plugin does happen to sound noticeably crap at this sample rate - then fine - Ill use something else.

Also until the sound is in my mixer (which effectively means computer as well) - I use analog signals everywhere - its just easier and consistent and patch bay friendly. Noise isnt an issue with careful wiring. Someone once commented "oh yeh cool - for that extra 'analogue warmth'". Im just thinking FFS...! No not for 'analogue warmth' - its cos it just works and no interconnect issues :)

I have a friend who runs a commercial studio - his approach is pretty much the same except that they dont track direct to a computer - instead track to multi-track hard disc recorders then upload to computer. The extra step is just because hard disc recorder tend to be guaranteed to be glicth free - computers aint. Incidently - those hard disc recorders are probably running at 44.1.

actually i usually always work in 32/96
there are HUGE advantages.

im surely thinking of canceling because of this.
it sucks i was looking so forward to the polar. :?

crazy that for you to use the total intergration
you have to work @ 16/44

most vsti synths do 96k
the difference in sound is staggering.

what a shame.Its because of the damn usb1!
should have been firewire

i would even be happy with 1 96k stream

damn :cry:

but it is not possible to
run the host program @ 96k
and have the usb stream @44???

that wont work right?

you keep saying working in 24/96 is such a huge advantage. tell me what these are? as someone else just mentioned, mastered CDs are 16/44, how the hell can it then benefit you working at different bitrates etc.

i know some mastering studios want the source in 32-bit float etc, but i think you can export it as this format AFTER actually working with the project in 16/44.

.x

im not sure why i have to tell you the advantages of recording and mixing
a project higher then 16 bit.
it is widely known.

but anyway in 24 bit, you would have to mix 48 db (!!!!)
lower to equal 16 bit resolution. Digital summing busses go to pieces if you are running each channel peaking high.
it comes down to headroom.

funny alot of the music made with the virus goes to vinyl
and vinyl mastering i have dealt with let me go 24/96.

i feel i have more control over the mix @higher resolutions.
its smaller increments.higher resolution.
makes simple sence.

i wouldnt have a problem if it would let me use my host @ 96k
it wouldnt matter if the virus streams are 44k.
but the problem is i would have to turn my whole hosts resolution
down and i have gotten so used to the higher level....
so that would be a real drag.

still havent got confirmation that i cant do it..

i want the host resolution (nuendo 3)
project set for 24/96
so all my mixing and effects are done @that resolution
is it possible to have the usb streams in at there resolution of 16/44
at the same time?

if this is possible i will be not let down at all by the virus.
but im not thinking this is possible.

it is my understanding that i would have to use the host resolution of
16/44 to be able to use the "total intergration"

i hope i am wrong. and it is possible.

what i cant figure out is why have 24/192 converters if you cant use that resolution?

Remember the analog outputs on the TI.....they can be used you know :lol:

For those who want to use the USB feature...then you'll just have to make that comprimise I guess. If your using decent quality cable....then the difference between analog outs and digital outs should be practically in audiable.....so whats the problem? You want to embrace the Total Integration feature that bad?

Great recordings have been made using analog outs for the past 30 years....I doubt its going to affect your quality....

DS

well it is called the virus ti...
and that is one of the factors that drew me to it.

no problem with using the analog outs.
but i have no room left.
i would have to get another i/o for my computer.

which in turn makes me a bit sour on it.

why do you act like it is so outrageous to be thinking this?

i know you have to justify the purchase.
but why can you not see that this lack of feature is a downer.

no you just try and explain why what i want to do isnt nessasary.
and it really isnt alot to ask for at all!

especially with a name like TI

i mean look at the current market of audio cards
they are not 16/44 cards.

it isnt the synth engin that makes me upset that would be fine
but its the fact that i will have to have my whole project at the lower rate.
that will not intergrate with how im working
or how anyone works in other then 16/44

this to me is a problem

[quote="DIGITAL SCREAMS"]Because they're great convertors anyway, even at more lowly bitrates.

hi Ben watched those 2 videos so often i feel like i know you :lol:

so i am right to believe that i can NOT have a host project digital rate
other than 16/44 if i want to use the USB audio streaming.?

is it likely that the Ti will get 1 24/96k stream possible?

u dont get it
of course work with 24 bit beetter couse it give u mpre space in ur mixes....
but better and tested way to work is with 24/44 or 16/44
and after u done export to wav in 24 bit for master
and after mastering the 24 bit/44 khz u export it to 16 bit wav file and send to some vinal label :twisted: :idea: :twisted:
if u lucky u get alot of money :twisted: :twisted: :idea:
this is how its done almost everywhere....
and 1 more thing for thought :
lets say:some1 mentioned that there are major benefits and improvments in sound with 96khz///
so if what u say its thrue why almost all module racks synths work in 16/44 and u get best sound's
aaaaaaa
this is the shit..
think about it.

If TI works @ 44kHz, it doesn't mean that you have to work @ 16bit 44.1Khz. You can work at 24bit 44.1kHz too and that's what most of producers use. Of course it's great to test that your system can work @96kHz but it's not very cool to notice that 1 soft synth or just a few effects need all your cpu's. I prefer working at 24bit 44.1kHz, good sound quality and plenty of power to play with. Of course you can use whatever sample rate you wish but you will find more problems (the TI for example) working at 96kHz. Of course it depends on what kind of music you produce but at least electronic music doesn't benefit much from using higher sample rates. It's another story if you record a rock band or symphony orchestra and make hifi records or film music, I guess.

i personally like 16 bit 44.1, the reason is it by far is the toughest sounding.

a nice tough edge - to knock "em

The TI soundcard and Virus sound-engine integrated element uses just 16-bits?

yup thats right!
hey but all these people say you dont need higher bit
rates!

in fact work at 24/44
and then convert it later!

what a bunch of rubish!
you like 16/44 because it has a tuff edge?
please any tuff edge will sound just as tuff @ a HIGHER RATE

people are a funny bunch.

doent really matter...for me and the way i work
this is a big problem
and i have canceled my order because of it.

its funny its not so obvious that this is the case with the TI
it only totally intergrates if you work @ 16/44

but according to most here you dont even need anything higher...
in fact im probably an idiot for going higher.

yea sure

nutekk: I totally understand your frustration(especially when I read the comment from technomonster) but I think you might have missed the point. When using the analog outs you CAN work in 24bits(and you can still use VControl to control any parameters)...the restriction only applys when using the USB AUDIO channels.

yea im glad you can see what im saying.
ive switched to mixing 24/96 last year and havent looked back since.

the only problem with working at the high rate is that it
uses alot of cpu cycles.
so in order to compensate for this i want to get a few hardware synths
so i wont have to use so many vsti and take the load of of my pc.

so the virus ti got me very excited.its an audio interface
a control surface, a badass synth engin and a good looker too.

but to use it at a 24/96 rate i would have to use the analog outs!
problem is i have a pulsar soundcard with only 1 set of analog inputs.
the rest are didgital (16)

so some of the luster has worn thin...i cant just plug it up and intergrate it
without buying another sound card.

so using the analog outs...the usb just tranfers midi data
could have just used a midi cable for that~

to me this is a misrepresentation of what it was.
it is only "TI" when you are running @ 16/44
i dont think this is what they initially intended.
for sure if they continue with the "TI" line
the next one will be able to do the higher rate.

the benefits of mixing and recording at higher rates then 16/44
are easy to hear...no matter what the medium.
even if going to cd.
do some research and you will find it to be true.

dont kid yourself the future is higher rates then 16/44

Easy to hear for some people, but 99% of the buying public couldn't care less, I can assure you. Especially being as a good deal of them probably listen to most of their music in mp3 format now..

yea im glad you can see what im saying.
ive switched to mixing 24/96 last year and havent looked back since.

the only problem with working at the high rate is that it
uses alot of cpu cycles.
so in order to compensate for this i want to get a few hardware synths
so i wont have to use so many vsti and take the load of of my pc.

so the virus ti got me very excited.its an audio interface
a control surface, a badass synth engin and a good looker too.

but to use it at a 24/96 rate i would have to use the analog outs!
problem is i have a pulsar soundcard with only 1 set of analog inputs.
the rest are didgital (16)

so some of the luster has worn thin...i cant just plug it up and intergrate it
without buying another sound card.

so using the analog outs...the usb just tranfers midi data
could have just used a midi cable for that~

to me this is a misrepresentation of what it was.
it is only "TI" when you are running @ 16/44
i dont think this is what they initially intended.
for sure if they continue with the "TI" line
the next one will be able to do the higher rate.

the benefits of mixing and recording at higher rates then 16/44
are easy to hear...no matter what the medium.
even if going to cd.
do some research and you will find it to be true.

dont kid yourself the future is higher rates then 16/44

this is such a crappy attitude.
im shocked. 8O

It's not an attitude - it's an observation.

that is rubish.
you have met with and discussed with 99% of the buying public
please!
as stated before it doesnt matter what the target media may be
mp3,cd, or vinyl
it still makes a difference if you mix @ a higher rate.

this "attitude" is negative.
and imo shouldnt be coming from a company such as access
who i thought were dedicated towards sound.
it seems though they havent been paying attention...
and goofed the "ti" aspect of the synth

im not saying it isnt a great sounding synth.
im am saying that "TI" shouldnt have been the name

and you should make customers aware that
if they are planning on using the "ti audio" feature
you will have to set your hosts to 16/44

i would have been really upset if my purchase was final.

I am not an Access employee, so my statement should not be taken as a reflection of their 'attitude'.

yea.......... :roll:
of course not.

to NUTTEK AND MADSTATION

i really apologise!!!!!! for my silly
comment.

what you say about the future being higher rates is so true, and i am scared of it.
but still i can hear a difference between 16 bit and even 24 bit.
its just that in my layman opinion the higher bit rates sound more beautiful and clearer - in a way, and i am a rough bastard. give me 8 bit - yeah

also i am not too fussed about the USB audio part as i adore the full
VA SYNTH hardware sound with the good old D/A converters feel to it.
I am myself just worried about how long it will work with my good ol' LOGIC 5.5.1.

I know already that the TI is up there with the greatest sounding synths ever made if not the greatest. i just hope i can get to use it straight away and worry about changing my recording program in the far future.

The wavetable sounds demos if the tunes used lower registers would have shown what a new world it is capable of. I often musk around with a ROLAND V-SYNTH at the shop , but the texture of the VIRUS TI wavetable is really different.

anyway sorry about upsetting you, your pursuits for quality is great.

i should actually start a topic for 16 bit vs higher bits.
in another part of this FORUM. i believe it changes the aesthetics and recording really should utilise this aesthetics idea.

yea of course man
i usually end up dithering some sounds in the mix
even down to 8 bit! sounds raunchy agood in contrast to some
clean pad or something.

hey the powercore can do 32/96 from what i understand.
maybe this is a viable option for those wanting to use
the totally unuseful higher sampling rates.

The powercore plugins CAN do 96kHz but they do not do 32 bit resolution.

warning: heavy tech babble and personal meaning ahead

Actually, nothing that is using VST does work in 32 bits.

VST works with audio data coded in 32 bit floats. The standard describes the audio signal as in a range from 1.0f to -1.0f.

The (single precision) "float" datatype is a 32bit construct with a 1bit sign, 8 bit exponent and a 23 bit mantissa ( or fraction).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_fl...point_standard

Because the exponent is always 1 (-1.0 to 1.0) you have left 24 bits to express your "level" (23 bit fraction/1bit sign). Therefore you do not have actually any advantage, in terms of "bit depth", in float DSPs (like i.e. the shark DSP) vs. 24bit DSPs (like the motorola ones).

I have to admit that this is not totally true since a there are values where the fraction is the same and the exponent shifts, but the precision gain in this is less than audible at all and also not guaranteed for all possible values within the range [-1,1].

Of course this is source of a lot of philosophical discussions, meanings and even flamewars, which I don't want either to bring up nor take part of.

tk

-this post is of course not an official statement of access music gmbh-

Why all the fighting????

Use whatever makes you happy! THE END!!!!!!!!! :)

yo jasede i dont know who is fighting?

so the virus|powercore can do then 24/96?
think im more concerned with sampling rate and not bit depth.
24/32 in most hosts as you say doesnt really matter.

Hmm, bit-depth is usually considered more pertinent than higher sample-rates, in no small respects due to the significantly greater dynamic range (and lower noise-floor).

What sort of dynamic range does the TI give when using all six streams via USB? I think 16-bits give -78dBs per channel, maximum? (six at the same time would be about -62dB, unless there's some digital compensation or mute/gate jiggery pokery going on?)

i was saying the difference between 24 and 32 didnt concern
me as much as being able to do 96k

Have you?

Unless you have a ?4000 medium to high-end hifi you wont really benefit from ultra high quality recordings.

Of course Access is dedicated towards the sound. You like the sound of their synths dont you? They must be doing something right

Since they are the only manufacturer to have attempted to implement this....i dont think its fair to say they've goofed the 'TI' aspect. In real terms they've achieved it.....initially in a slightly limited way. Hence, I'll be waiting for the version which does implement the feature fully. No one put a gun to your head to buy the TI....you knew what your buying....hell you've had 9 months to think it through.

What would you have called it then?

PS - im not getting at you....just trying to ascertain how you see things...

DS

LOL.....but what Ben is saying is actually the way it is. Your not going to hear any audiable difference (whilst listening to a 192kbps mp3) from a track originally recorded on a quality 16/44 soundcard to that of some 24/96 card. The dynamic range of mp3 just wont allow for it. Secondly, your only going to hear a difference when playing a CD if you have a medium to hi-end hifi (circa ?3000+). I know this...as im into hifi and can 'hear' the difference. YOur average jo bloggs sits at home with their ?300 mini system....sorry to burst the bubble....but all you get from those kinda mass produced hifi's is sonic distortion.

You live in a world where you want pristine sound quality....thats great...I feel the same way....but as Ben hinted...and from what i know....most people arent living in the same sonic world as you or I. Sound card manufacturers love to bombard you with specs....but as a final thought...a high quality 16.44 soundcard pisses on a cheaper 24/96 card. Im not too familiar with the pulsar card...but it sounds like it sits in the sub ?1000 budget category.

Plz dont take offence to my comments....your entitled to yours as I am.

DS

ok..

have i spoke with 99percent of the buying public?
no and i dont claim to have!

higher bit/rate mixing and recording benifits the producer hugely.
thus making the finished product better for the end user.
i know i attain a better control with less work @ higher rates.
dont act like noone uses higher rates because it is simply not true.

yes there synths are a staple.however for someone that does all there demoing and stuff to "say the public doesnt care about quality
because they listen to mp3" doesnt sound like a good attitude to me.
i despise mp3 and never listen to them...i must be the only one
so because people listen to mp3 it doesnt matter that the "ti audio function" isnt able to support a standard that is supported by even crappy vsti...and sound blaster live cards!

please! ever heard of "waldorf microwave pc".
i own one and it came out in 1999.
it is the guts of an XT mounted in a 5 1/4 drive bay that interfaces with
the computer and you control it with a plugin interface
a full 10 voices-
hardware keyboard quality latency
full hardware compatibility.
no cpu cycle stealing
I love the unit...which is why i wanted to go for the same type of thing
for the virus.

again i would not call it a TI
because its intergration is quite limited.
if you are buying it for just the synth then im sure you will be happy
but if you are buying it for the "intergration"
dont plan on working on anything but 16/44 intergrated
other than that the intergration is a usb cable instead of a midi one.

jesus
my problems arent off the wall.
it doesnt say anywhere in the documentation that your host has to be set
to 16/44.
Everyone doesnt work @ 16/44
again take a look at the audio cards that have come out in the last 2 three
even 4 years. all higher bit rate compatible....
this is no little sect of recording producers.it is the present and future.

if access continues with the "ti" line which i think they should
version 2
will correct these core flaws in the total intergration aspect.

and i dont want pristine sound quality.

the higher bit rates make my job as a producer easyer.
plain and simple.

common im not the only one mixing @ 24/96 PLEEEASE!