Modular synthesis explained?
 

Hi,

I was just wandering about the new line of Nord Modular synths. In fact, I really dont know what this means, and was hoping someone could shed some light on the basics of modular synthesis. Doesnt have to be too technically specific, maybe just the basic difference between say, the Virus C, and the G2.

Thanks!

Jase

P.S and maybe soundwise too? If anyone owns one of these. I am looking at buying a Nord Lead 2 or 3, and thought I should consider the G2 aswel.

the basic in modular synthesis is... freedom....
you dont have to stick to osc-filter-amp
well you do in someway :) but you dont have to
you can use lfos as sound generators and such
basicly you can build what ever synth you desire...
the g2 it does offer much more then the nord lead series but consider that if you want instent sounds,modulars are not realy for you
because they need to be patched which takes a bit more time then programing a simple atrcitecture synth...

if you do want a modular synth and its for studio use only consider the creamware pulser 2 dsp card aswell
the modular 3 is even more powerful then the clavia ones and it offers many methods like granular synthesis for instence that the nm doesnt offer but it doesnt have pysical modeling modules...

in modular synths you have the possibility to create your own signal path, while on the virus and similar synths it is already established by the manufacturer and you can only bypass existing sections of the signal chain.

Ahhh.....I see. Basically a synth for those that are a little more into sound designing, that offers far greater customisation and options.

Thanks for the info guys! i think maybe the Lead is more up my alley.

Cheers,

Jase

Most synthesizers are 'hardwired' which means there is a set signal flow and ur programming is confined to the boundaries of the synth itself. Most hardwired synths (i.e. Nord leads, Virus, Waldorfs etc etc) encompass osc, amp, filter, lfo configurations. With a modular, you assign the 'modules' to work with each other....and because its not hardwired...u can basically patch anything into anything. Now, if u know what ur doing (a takes a little time...but im guessing everyone has th ecapcity to master modular synthesis).....you can create never-heard-before sounds. That is th eappeal of modular. Now from what ive read and heared th eClavia G2X is the best and sounds very good. Old 70's and 80's modulars are nowadays a prohibitive investment and cost a shitload to service and transport! The G2X is the best way forward......it actally sounds f*%@ing good.

Hopefully Access are going to tap into the modular market soon. Having said that....Since I own a Virus KC already....I will probably go with the G2X...purely because it doesnt have a Virus tone...and im a stickler for versatility. But we'll see........

DS

vintage modulars are just a waste of money
no memory,no midi,they will probebly breakdown... :)

I'd like to have a real modular before a g2-modular, why?

It's more fun to patch the real thing rather in a software.

No memory = buy a digitalcamera and take some photos of it.

No Midi = doesn't matter really.. use cv/gate or whatever - play live and sample it? much more fun

If I got a hardware modular it would probably be the Doepher stuff.

DS

ds:yeah that one is fat.
303: its too much hassle to sample and mess with unnececery problems
and remember most hw modular systems are monophonic...
im not a big fan of monosynths btw...

I am a big fan of monophonic-synthesizers! I wouldnt mind sample/use a cv/gate sequencer instead of boring computers.

About poly vs mono is another thing, i do like when the synthesizer takes it's all power into one note instead of making it play 128 notes at the same time.

If i had the money i'd go for an all hardware / analogue studio.

Pro-one, Dopfer modularsystem, synthesizer.com modularsystem, minimoog, and so on and so on. There are so many great mono-synthesizers out there. No shame in owning a poly-analogue aswell Jupiter 8 or something like that. Argh, money money money

Although they don't have memory you can always leave a pre-determined signal patch patched, then program as you would on any other analogue without memory slots. Once you get tired of that signal path, try something completely different.

Having said that though, this pic bellow would have so many patch possibilities, that I wouldn't know where to start.



There are always synths like the MS-20 which have a hardwired signal path until you plug patch cables in. Having true analogue modulars can let mix and match machines too.

I think if I were going for a modular I would go for a small one though. Maybe a system 100 set. Anything too big would be too much work.

I have an Analogue mono (not modular) and having no memory slots isn't a problem at all. Programming it is so damn easy and because most mono synths have their speciality (bass for example), then you are using them for one style of sound.

I'd love to sit by that modularsystem and having 500 cables around me for patch-n-play. hehe

I don't mind, i could spend hours just making up new sounds

Holy shit! That HW modular looks crazy.....

It would take up so much room.....It's no wonder people are so amazed that they can own a shit load of synths all running inside their computer. One day we will see digital synths being able emulate the classics almost exactly...technology is only getting better, and more advanced.

Very exciting stuff!

is that the roland system in that picture?

well hollow its easy because it doesnt have many parameters but imagine in a modular when you have 1000s ?!
its a pain to reprogram complex modulation sounds
say i always wondered how do you set the amount of mix in modulating filter with an lfo for say
each type of cable has its own capasity which determens the amount of mix?

I not sure about that. We had processors and DSP technique for 30 years. The computers and synths we have to day relay on old algorithm from the 70-80?s. Sure they have changed them a bit. But nothing new has happen on the side for long.

I think we will see new analog/digital components that you can program for different purpose. Saw a filter, a oscillators what ever. We are not going further with bigger bit depth and higher sample rate. But that just my opinion.

Nope. We are extending the algortihms. DSP's get more powerful -> More complex algorithms are possible. And the more complex the algorithms are the better the sound is (or what ever the DSP is used for). Computer technology is still developing fast even the progress has been incredible for years. We still haven't met the limits of computing (actually we have hardly even passed the prelude of computing force). Then we start to be on the limit when the computers work on atom level or even on quantum level. And believe me, if Access would be still making synths it would sound quite different than what Virus sounds now. Hoho.

You have an amount knob of course.

Do you really hear much differents from a virus A and virus C. When it comes to pure sound osc/filter. Except the the new filter type of course? To me not much has happen in that respect for the Access product. Maybe they have killer algorithms they are holding back ? :?

The new filters are the new algortihms. Also the extra DSP power in C is used for extra oscs and polyphony.

Edit: And why to fix something that isn't broken?

think of ecconomic algorithems LOL

Yeh, System 700. It was on an Auction here in Japan a while ago.

The is no doubt DSP technolgy is catching up fast, but I erge everyone ot sit down with a well known analogue machine now.

Listening to an analogue that has been recorded isn't enough - sure they sound good, but there is an undifinable warmth that doesn't translate well in recordings. Didn't believe it myself until doing it.

I'm sure most of you heard those clips I put up of my CS-10 (if not, click the soundclick link in my sig). That thing is a single OSC, single filter mono-synth, but the bass end has so much presence and the filter is bloody aggressive! Wish I could invite you guys into my studio so you could hear it pre-recording.

Don't get me wrong though, I love my DSP based VAs. There are things my VAs can do that I wouldn't dream of doing on an old analogue. Midi synced LFO madness for one.

HC I have no doubt the CS-10 is a great little bass machine. Even better is a SCI Pro-One or Korg Mono-Poly. If u heared one of those beasts coming out of a decent pair of monitors it would make u poop ur panties hehehe.

The bass from the Pro-One is my all time favourite. To me its the perfect bass tone - dirty, naturally aggressive, woody, tight and warm. Its just superb. Id have a Pro-One over a Minimoog anyday. The Mono-Poly makes softer, warmer and slightly fatter bass. Perfect partnership.

For a VA the Virus puts out respectable bass. Im aware of the fact that alot of people use softsynths and VA's for bass.......Its just something I choose not to do. Ill program bass on the Virus......but I'd never use it.

In my opinion if the people making dance/trance and techno started using more analog mono's in their music (and I think some of them are) then I think the overall quality and feel of their tracks would improve. I know the Pulse is startng to heavily feature within the scene now.

DS

Yes, dance music producer use more analog monster bass synth?s. In a good sound system there is a difference between a EQ boosted Soft-synth compared to analog bass monster (like the SCI Pro-One).

Yes, but will the average punter, high as a kite on ecstacy and other amphetamines, really give a shit??? It all sounds the same when you are f*cked up.......and the aim is just to dance, to anything really, as long as it has a beat. The only ones that can tell are the ones making the music, and the guys like us here that are obsessed with getting great sounds.

Something to consider I guess??? When making a product, you have to think about to whom the product is aimed at.....is it aimed at the geeks, like us, or the ravers? Or the DJ's etc.....Or Radio, and then it is so heavily processed by multi-band compression that it probably wouldnt make a difference if the sounds were analogue, digital, or from my ass!!!

Hmmm......What was this topic about again?

Jase :wink:

Fuck the rest :wink: Make music for the geeks like me.

I hate thinking like this when it comes to making music.

The electronic genres are becomming too commercialised and it's really starting to show. People crushing the shit out of tracks to get that "commercial volume" arrg. Or happy to find the preset in their softsynth that matches their favourite club track.

Lot's of people can't hear the difference in music, but these aren't the people I'm making music for - I'm making tunes for me. It's my form of art and that's all.

I think compareing current VA sound againt Analogue is kind of like comparing old vs new guitars, mics, amps and desks. Some people like the sound of one or the other, but most of the listeners on the street can't really tell which is which.

I agree HC, it is a shame to start thinking of music as a "product", but for alot of people it is just that. A business, too.

I think for alot of people they are trying to achieve artistic fulfillment, but that alone wont pay the bills. And I for one dont want to be working in a cafe or office the rest of my life. Fuck that! And what are the chances that my Art will sustain me and help me provide for my family? I hope it will, but I guess I am a bit too much of a realist......

Hmmm.....But then again, of we are not trying to obtain artistic fulfillment, or following our passion, regardless of whether it will lead to self sufficiency, then what would be the point of life?

I am getting too heavy now....

Yeh it is getting a bit heavy (and a bit off the original topic), but why not.....

I have never been really hopefull that my music will get me anywhere. I've never sent a demo out or tried meeting the "right" people. I think it would spoil my passion. Having said that though, if someone wants to professionally master my old tracks and release them, they can go right ahead. :wink:

Working in a nice studio recording other bands (tracking, mixing, mastering or even assisting) would be nice though. That wouldn't take away from my own creativity too much.

What was this topic again?! hehehe. Oh yes modulars. I took a look at the G2 video linked from the clavia site. Man that looks like a nice synth! :D

it is and i just started cracking the surface of it...

peace
Blank

I thought you bought the NL3 and not the G2 Blank?

No i bought the G2, theres more i can do with it.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

peace
Blank

I'll say!

I read up on the G2 in more detail recently and there is some really cool stuff it can do for sure.

Re: Modular synthesis explained?
 

hey jase i have a g2, since i only have experience with vir c and moss board, i apply substractive technique to get some good sounds.
G2 offers substractive synthesis, additive synthesis, FM, AM, ring modulation, DX router, flipflop module, CLKDIVmodule, 8counter, bincounter, ADCONV, DACONV, step sequencers, compressors, dual saw waveform(not on the virc), whole bunch of filters(filt nord kiks ass), flt voice (designed to simulate vocal tract), comb flt, physical modelling(string osc), osc perc, drumsynth, metalic osc, noise osc, vocoder(16band) and so much modulation and more stuff. Editing software is nice, you could assign all parameters to the knobs and tweek with out the editor. A single sound can have 8 different variations too. 4 part multi. G2 internal memory is divided into 32 banks with 128 memory locations each(manual says). In the future they could easily come with grains and much more.
Go with g2 instead of nl2 or nl3 because g2 emulates both of them and many more.
I'm still learning a lot of stuff on my G2, in the future for a doepfer or moog
hey blank and juho, how you guys doing with your modulars?

Tranzash......

Thanks for the detailed description of the capabilities of the G2! They certainly sound like an awesome machine. I guess in the end it will come down to cost, and availability as I will probably be picking up a Nord on my travels to Hong Kong (where they are MEGA CHEAP!!!)

Cheers for all the info guys!

Jase

Pick me up a G2 while you are there too Jase (if you have time of course). :D Then stop over in Japan (with my new G2 of course) and I'll give you a place to stay. Heheh

No worries.....I will buy you the G2, as long as you buy me a MOOG! Or Alesis Andromeda, Im not fussy, and we will swap when I get to Japan.

See ya there! hehehe.....

Sure! I'll grab you a nice Moog......








T-shirt or something. :D

Yes the punters do realise the difference in an indirect/subconscious way. These crack heads enjoy thumping basses and searing leads......and it just so happens that if its done on analog gear, it sounds better......then its perceived to be a 'better' tune.

Im a little old skool u see. I listen to alot of late 80's and early 90's house and rave music. Not so much because I like the music but im more interested in the extreme sounds they were using back then. Its of no suprise to me that the vast majority of artists back then were using analog synths: Roland Jupiters, TB303's, Prophet 5, Pro-One, Korg Mono-Polys (synced leads!!!!), Roland Alpha Juno's and Juno 60's. There were of course many others that were used....but perhaps less well documented. Its important to bear in mind that by the late 80's and particularly early 90's analog synth were selling for peanuts. Ive heard stories of Jupiter 8's go for $350 for instance. The digital revolution really hit analog synth re-sale value.....so alot of these poor, creative bedroom crackheads made banging tunes with cheap analog synths. To my ears.....they did a really good job. Put it this way....I'd love to hear some of those tunes done on just a VA...... It just wouldnt be the same would it?

DS

You are of course, correct when you say that a tune done on a VA will not sound as good if it were done on an analogue beast......there is no denying that, but Im not so sure the average punter, who has no particular interest in synthesis or music production, and wants to go for a dance, would be able to tell???

Or maybe I am not giving people enough credit....We are eternally evolving and becoming more intelligent (well, most of us)

btw Ds,waldorf are back on track
some of their imployess are starting a new company which will repair waldorf synths and develop new ones under a new name.