You guys need a hug.

This might be intentionally to make sure the user has less problems fitting the synth into the mix and probably has nothing to do with DAC or the corresponding amp.

I'm a bit afraid to discussion all the weaknesses of the Virus here, they'll probably throw me out of this forum ;) I'd guess this is a engine generated effect, you tested the S/P-DIF and USB Output for comparison?

Please keep in mind that english isn't my native language, when it comes to technical terms I may pick the wrong expressions. I'm very sorry if this cause missunderstandings or hurts your feelings.

Nope, I posted that the differences between the DACs are that subtile, that slight level differences would have an higher impact on the character of the output.

Well, if its a shielding and cabling problem you'd probably hear hum or clock emissions, but this wouldn't have that much influence on the character of the synth.

I think to remember that the bandlimiting filter needs about 5 or 6khz where it tends to dampen the higher harmonics, so with 48khz (48-5=42/2 (f/2 nyquist) = 21Khz) Oscillator and bandwith wise you'd be on the save side. When it comes to nonlinear stuff like FM or waveshaping (like filter saturation), I've been told that higher sampling rates or oversampling can be extremely helpfull to shift the artefacts above the audiable range. Still, 192khz would be pretty much an overkill, but I'm no synth developer myself, it's just a few explanaitions I got when talking/mailing to developers I worked with.

You can find some very informational papers regarding that topic here:

http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~stilt...s/Welcome.html



...Summa

Hi i downloaded the Sylenth1 demo just to see what all the is fuss about, and i must admit this is a fairly hefty vst the best i've heard in the way of being virus ti like, im impressed for the little amount it cost's and would even consider purchasing it, but to honest it aint as good as my virus ti desktop, but for anybody on a budget it is surely a worthwhile investment.

We're all good Summa. I thought you were going to criticise without contributing anything. Must have thought I was on the MPC forums. Back to the discussion ... Yikes, where do I even start to quote the quoted quotes? Hope these makes sense. I'm just quoting your reply and keeping this as short as I can :)

Actually, I don't see any reason why you can't have DC from digital or analog outputs if there's no DC decoupling in the analog output stage. I assume this is a discreet stage output of the DAC chip but that could be my ignorance.

I've sampled the S/PDIF into several sampling workstations, direct optical. Its always the same result AND not just the TI. The waveform of low bass notes is obviously low cut visually. You really should be able to have a perfect 20Hz saw wave coming out of the TI if you really want one.

Perhaps all my sampling workstations are all at fault here?

Yes, hum and clock noise are NOT synth character :) And there's certainly neither coming out of the TI

I'm intrigued by this idea but I just don't understand it. The only slight differences I can imagine would be similar to eq. And you might be able to compensate for that with eq in the DAW. Can you give an example (non TI example is fine)

Cheers,
BF

Since at least when it comes to analog outs this could kill your speakers, the inductors will overheat when exposed to a constant current. When it comes to the mix, the DC-Offset is shifting the waveforms symmetry above or below the X-Axis and thus creating level without loudness.

If the S/P-DIF signals shows the same problems it's created by the synths engine/software and no DAC problem.
As mentioned in my last posting, mixing and integration can be easier and needs less EQing when the synth already outputs a processed sound with amplified mid-frequencies by dampening low and high frequencies or even (as some synths seems to do) cutting bandwith to conserve some processing power. Most ppl. seem to prefere that type of sound even so the synth tends to lose quite a bit of its flexibility that's why I don't have exactly a crush for that type of synths and a flexible synth engine allows to cut the unneeded frequencies at will.
Anyway when it comes to a mathematical perfect saw, if this is what you're looking for, even none of my analog synths create one and when I played arround with different saw samples the perfect ones don't sound very well.
Still, when it comes to the Virus and Bass sounds with lots of low end, it takes quite a bit effort to create them.

Don't think so, but I could be wrong, since I mainly use my Computer for sampling/recording sounds.



Well it is similar to an EQ, it's an effect widely known as Fletcher Munson Curves, that explains how different levels influence the frequency perception.

Here a link to the revised version of the curve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

So when comparing DACs one have to make sure the Level is identical and testing double blind, since ppl. often tend to hear what they expect to hear.

...Summa

Interesting discussion. Long term lurker, first time poster, bought a Virus TI desktop around 6 months ago.

I was going to write a long essay on the journey Ive had with the synth, oscillating (get it) between thinking "this is no better than my VSTs" and "this is in a different league to my VSTs"...but Ill keep it short! IMO with good convertors on your system, VSTS such as Sylenth are pretty much identical to the Virus in terms of sound quality. So what IS the difference?

In short;

1) no other synth can generate such an incrediably wide range of sounds (the new oscillator modes took this thing to an unprecedented level)
2) no other synth does each to a generally excellent quality
3) no other synth uses hardware DSP controlled through the most beautifully designed and intuitive plug in interface
4) no other synth features on board FX of this quality
5) no other synth does all this multitimbrally across 16 parts.

That is all.

Hello ^_-

1) it certainly can have a wide range of sounds but for the price of a Virus Ti you can buy MANY soft synth who use many different type of synthesis and each will do his own time quite well...
Still good point for the virus is being able to use all those type of sound with always the same interface and hardware controler...

2) maybe, maybe not...it depend on each person opinion

3) ok with that ^_-

4) YES but in exchange you cant use individual effect plugins for each part... by using virus ti, you have all the 16 parts assigned directly to only ONE track of your sequencer... so if you want to use external effect plugins it will affect all track of the virus... wich off course is not usable...
By using softsynth, each instance use a different track on your sequencer and so you can use any HIGH QUALITY plugins you want for each... and i bet many Audio unit or vst plug ins revern or others sound better than virus one...

5) true... but what if you need 17 part ? :p
you can open as many Sylenth instance as you want... 32 if you want....

6) dont forget the latency you get when playing the virus Ti inside your sequencer, the fact that all the 16 part are not available as "one per track" in your sequencer is a problem too, not being able to freeze Virus ti track or to Bounce it faster than real time is a problem.

I love the virus, but its very subjective and i dont understand why a soft synth would never be capable of doing same as a virus. After all a virus is same as a soft synth, dsp and program... then yes like peoples sade, converted and other things play a part in final quality... wich is maybe why the virus sound slightly better than sylenth... then again.... the virus is 20 times more expensive ... ( at least where iam)

so for the price of a virus Ti, it would be possible to buy Sylenth+ very good plugins (reverb, delay etc) + very good soundcard with good converter.... and then...

everything is possible, Virus is top of my list, but Sylenth is very surprising...

All 16 parts of the Virus don't have to be run through only ONE track of the sequencer. Firstly you can use the 3 separate USB outs and then the 3 audio outputs as well all of which can then be separately processed with your software FX.

Rendering is bit annoying compared to software but the TI is as 'integrated' as it gets for an external hardware synth.

Can your CPU handle 32 instances of Sylenth?

ti for me...
 

i guess it comes down to personal preference in the end..

i can say though, after using softsynths for while on a MBP + controller, i do prefer using my Polar. For me it is the immediacy as a performance instrument that makes it soo good....much nicer than having your head stuck in a computer:p

I think Mac Pro can run 32 instance of sylenth as its supposed to be light on cpu usage....
But Hey, dont get me wrong :D VIRUS IS VIRUS...
iam not really comparing... i know, having a Virus on the desk is special lol
i think the virus have something "Magical".... even compared to Virus plugin for pro tools or something, having the virus harware on the table is different... its like touching directly the sound and... that sound is so good and rich....

there must be something psychological about it, like soft synth is just some programe coming from a cd or worst from internet connection directly to your computer.... compared to virus Physicly on your desk...
i dont know lol something is special...:cool: