:)

I tried the demo a while ago...What I like about its Unison is that it is so much more than the average unison, which are usually things like Pitch detuning, Pan spread, phase, generalized envelope randomness for all the Voices etc..With Dune2, YOu can also make all sorts of variations between all the voices, like Cutoff, LFO, ARP etc...every synthesis function really...
Dune 1 had a way to do similar things, from the Mod Matrix...

Overall I liked Dune 2..JUst wish there was a possibility to use the wavetables as FM carriers and Modulators...Dune 1 could use a variety of waveforms for FM..I feel that Dune 2 is lacking in that aspect...could have been quite simple to implement, I am guessing.

Yeah, each unison voice is basically like its own patch within a multi, can make some amazing sounds with it. I think you're right it probably would have been fairly easy to allow multiple wavetables for FM like in Dune, although I think with the additional FM controls that Dune 2 has for each voice, the net result might be a bit more flexibility overall. Although, another way of looking at it is you can get both Dune1+Dune2 bundled for about the same price as most soft synths and have the best of both worlds, or if you already have Dune 1 you can get Dune 2 for only $80.

It's been interesting to watch Dune2 bubble to the top of the KVR rankings, that was something I mentioned I thought we would see in my first post in thread.

As for the KVR ratings: well, the first one was already used a lot! The stripped down, although perfectly usable Computer Music's Dune version surely has helped to broaden the public. And now this one continues the same tendency: it's packed with enough features to appeal to those looking for a bread and butter synth and with a few things of its own like the mentioned rather unique Unison engine it's got!

Now, as for nutrino's post: well, there's some instruments with which you can feed a completely wacky signal into the FM equation. One that immediately strikes my mind is Zebra, of course. You can even draw your own wavetable and use that input for modulating the frequency of a simpler FM oscillator. Actually you can feed it with just about any kind of signal you want, except audio input! Another great FM synth to look for is of course Bazille (yes, also from U-he) which is capable of some unique stuff, that you'd only find using some euro rack modules previously...

Zebra is still in my top 5 must-have synths, mainly because as you said, the flexibility to do just about anything that can be done with a synth, including a few things nobody has thought of yet. Every now and then with a synth like Dune 2, I find myself wanting to do something that only Zebra can. But, the overall time from init patch to a great patch in Dune 2 is so much faster. Sometimes the flexibility of Zebra encourages so much experimentation that it can be time consuming. Dune 2 really shines at the workflow of sound design, creating amazing patches easily with a simplified UI.

I have to agree with you on that point!

That's one of the reasons most people love their hardware synths, you usually get to know them inside out and then it's a breeze to get new sounds of them!

But there's plenty of software ones that can get pretty damn complicated that are quite good for more daring stuff. On the back of my mind would be Zebra, FM8 with it's amazingly flexible envelopes and FM engine (I personally don't like the filters on it...), Absynth that's got to have one of the most complex engines I've seen thus far, capable of producing the most intriguing sound atmospheres with tons of very organic sounding movement.

Of all those, the one I like to use more is of course Zebra. One of the reasons for that is the layout. Waveform editing is a breeze, even custom designed wavetables can be quite fast to achieve. Then there's the oscillator fx which just add tremendous possibilities to the equation. It can also drive all this as far as x11 unison voices per oscillator, no matter the complexity of the oscillator itself. But you can't do that with an FM oscillator, those are quite simple, sort like DX style oscillators were.

I think for a modular style synth with so much going on, the cable free interface with the columns has actually made it quite easy to accomplish hugely complex patches quite fast. Even the way it lets you arrange the modules themselves, switch their order, turn them on and off, so forth and so on, is quite ingenious. And I'm expecting something out of this world to come with the 3rd version of it - there's already much talk on their KVR forum about that! Very promising!

Being a Virus guy, I've got that famous manual called "programming analogue synthesizers" by Howard Scarr and was pleased to catch up with him again on U-he's stuff, and think it's kind of natural that synth aficcionados and sound design enthusiasts regard Zebra as a go-to synth!

If you get into the sound designer frame of mind, you'll quickly begin looking at instruments and their different feature sets and after some experimentation ('cause you don't know something just from the feature list) you decide on what something can do that others can't or what it can do better then others. To my mind, the implementation of Unison on Diva is something that completely sets it apart from the competition and can deliver sounds you can't get elsewhere! Plus, it can deliver in the most simple of sounds with very impressive results: it's used a lot for the plucky sawtooth bass you find on most trance genres, for example - even the computer music version can do that brilliantly!

MusicRadar review... a couple of months old but I only now saw it.

http://www.musicradar.com/us/reviews...-dune-2-603850

ANybody tried out Serum yet ? Its pretty good

Is there a point anymore? I mean what can you really offer these days that hasn't been done. Of course I would never want these companies to stop, as eventually they will stumble across something completely new. I can't even bring myself to try spire or dune.

Continual improvement is never done until everyone stops doing it. Some of the newer soft synths coming out sound better than hardware. I wouldn't have said that maybe 6 years ago.

Is the market oversaturated with plugins? Sure, but when one comes along that's noteworthy, then it is, and that was my reason for creating this thread. I didn't mention the other fifty or so I've tried that didn't strike me as particularly special.

I wouldn't write them off if you haven't tried them. That's what demos are for.

Tried the demo. I thought the presets sounded good, but just browsing presets can be slow (wavetable loading I'm sure), and I think overall performance of it would be a problem for my workflow. Also all of the visualizations are nice, and useful enough, but I'm not sure I want to be using my CPU for animations. Some of the presets sounded good in isolation but not a lot of them grabbed me as something I would really use in a mix. I can see how it's popular though.

The wavetable loading would surely be better on an SSD but I don't want to spend a lot of money on a hard drive that gets progressively slower / damaged slightly every time it's written to.

Dune 2 just got a major (and free) update to v2.2.

This plugin remains one of my staple synths. A few patches from the new update here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trZuB9MvhQk

I purchased Dune 2 a couple weeks ago. Really amazing synth from what I've discovered so far. Blends really well with Virus sounds, and dare I say, does some things better. Looking forward to diving in further!

Yes, it does some things that none of my other synths including the Virus can match. If they made a dedicated hardware version with plugin integration of Dune2 I'd be one of the first to sign up (assuming the integration worked well).

Even still... The CPU isn't THAT bad unless you are using crazy polyphony. Hardware versions of anything are always gonna be cooler though, you are right. :cool:

Oh don't get me wrong. The sound of Dune2 is well worth it. It is a next-gen soft-synth, so higher CPU usage than older synths is to be expected.

Depending on the types of sounds you are after, you can make Dune2 very efficient, and it's unison algorithms produce some of the fattest/warmest harmonics of any of my synths. But, sometimes it sounds so good that it makes you want to add a little here, a little there, and before you know it you've got a multi-timbral sound that's eating 20-25% of your CPU.

I was very excited by Dune2 and bought it the first week it was available. But after a couple years I have to say that I don't use it much. It has very well thought GUI and lots of cool features, but i'm not thrilled with the sound. Not that it sounds bad (it doesn't) but it is a bit characterless. Dune2 is good for big ambient soudnscapes, but when you need a lead or a bass to stand out in the mix other synths do it better.

Before getting a Virus I used to think that Dune2 is modelled after it and is the closest thing to it in the software realm but it actually isn't.

I've seen synths claim to be modeled after the Virus, but none of them really are. Synth emulation is pretty much an all or none thing, you try to match the signal output perfectly with a oscilloscope throughout each range of parameters or you don't -- once you deviate even slightly, even if the deviation is adding more features or range, saying it's modelled after something else becomes a mere marketing pitch at best. I've never seen Dune2 claim to be modeled after the Virus, but I would say there are some similarities.

How well a lead or bass stands out in a mix really depends on too many factors (mostly EQing and what is going on in the other mix) to conclusively say one does it better than the other. I personally find the Virus weak at bass, but it can make good bass sounds (it's just that the definition of good bass varies among individuals).

I find Dunes strong point to be its workflow. It's not that other synths can't sound just as good, it is the ease of sound design that I like about it. If I want to try to recreate a specific sound, starting from an init patch, Dune2 is my go to tool because it gets me there faster. Others mileage may vary.

Overall I don't think my Snow can push the total level of richness at the same polyphony level as Dune2, but then again Dune2's filters don't sound quite as sharp as the Snow. They each have their strong points.

I find Spire VSTi to sound really close to Virus at certain types of patches, such as hypersaws, VA sounds, sounds with heavy amount of distortion or phaser. It's not an emulation but it is really hard to tell in the mix which one was used.

I agree that Dune's workflow is really well thought. But the sound is not quite my thing. Probably if they added global saturation, like Virus "character/analog boost" it would be easier for me to squeeze the sounds I like out of it.

But honestly, after getting a Virus I don't fire up my softsynths too often.

Dune 2 still remains one of my favorite all-time synths, and has remained in the list of top ranked plugins on KVR pretty much since it was released. If anyone ever wanted it but didn't like the price, it is currently 40% off on Synapse Audio's website. To the best of my knowledge they have not sent out mail about this promotion.