YEAAAH! Me 2!

Well, if the Prophet 12 responds to proper midi cc rather than sysex, theoretically one could do as I do to control a Wavestation SR and eventually the elektron monomachine MK1 yet to learn is use something like a Korg Kontrol 49 controller or any of the Yamaha TG's with a vector joystick and simply assign midi cc's 18 and 19 I think for X/Y control since the Prophet 12 seems like more of a re-engineered Prophet VS with advantage of analog vcf lpf/hpf, etc. plus alot more. It's a bit out of my price range since having my set-up 99% way want it aside from as Tweakhead posted, the MS20 can be used in SO many ways coupled with Evolver, external signals from our Virus or routing VCO's possibly to act as analog sub osc's to get dirty deeper bass with virus...exciting times!

Or use something like a Korg Nanopad through your DAW or something... or the X/Y touchscreen on my M3

That indeed is a great idea with touchpad on your M3. Tried using touchpad on Novation Remote SL61MKII for controlling Wavestation SR to no really good control as you would with a joystick for truely vectoring control. On the Korg Forum, some people had indeed tried using their M3 because I forget where, but on your M3 you already have a template for Wavestation and/or Vector control, and it was satisfactory, nothing like a joystick and hence was rec. to purchase really cheap Korg Kontrol 49 with a true 4 region vector control and it worked like a charm for little money....the Kontrol 49 pretty much was ahead of game and could easily see where novation's launchpad was "gleaned" from Korg. It turns out that multi-controller is very utilitarian. On your M3, do you not also have an actual joystick, unless mistaken? If so, for controlling say DSI Prophet 12 like a giant Prophet VS, you could assign midi cc 17 and 18 or somewhere in that range--it's in a Word Doc of saved info from Korg Forum. (I truely want to learn to actually program the Korg Wavestation SR rack because at 1 rack space, takes very little room.
NAMM 2013 has started to drive ALOT of hardware to be listed...namely, since using evilbay post military, have never seen so MANY original vintage Korg MS20's. Funny thing is though, do not see a new proponderance of DSI gear on evilbay.
DSI were VERY smart in that the Prophet 12 simply augments rather than replaces anything in their product range! :D

I believe the implementation of wavetables on this one is similar to what you get in something like NI's Massive or even the Virus ti range, and therefore proper scanning of the waves can be done by modeling just one axis, either with a knob, an lfo, or the mod wheel...

As for vector controllers, I think the wacom (yes, the actual graphic's pen, with touch!! important to stress out the touch part!!!) is hard to beat, once you get some software for it, so it sends midi information to your gear or software (there's plenty of solutions for it online, even using max msp). The one that came with the novation is a joke. You have to press it real hard so that it reads everything, not the kind of smooth action I was thinking about. So that's it: either a nano pad or if you're into graphic design of some sort, buy a bamboo pen that's touch enabled - that's as smooth as it gets!

EDIT

of course you can even use a gaming joystick of your choice to midi control your stuff, this way... there's really no limits. there's people using the wii controllers (yes, I know, insane...) for music applications and stuff like that.

Well, the prophet 12 also has two touch/finger sensors that various modulational affect can be routed to it like DSI's Tempest and that would mean time will tell just how sound can be manipulated.
You are correct Tweak on Novation's touchpad and am still thinking perhaps i never tweaked the sesativity of it correctly or thoroughly....it does not help that one of the physical/medical issues I have from one of my military health issues is peripheral neuropathy, which rendors tips of fingers and toes tingly/numb with sometimes more sensation than would like then other way and reason I enjoy aftertouch SO much as I can compensate with that and work around my own, at times, very limitation. Wonder if there's been a firmware update that addressed this on such a really nice controller otherwise? As I stated in another post, I can see further in future perhaps getting a Prophet 12 BUT I would pragmatically have to decide perhaps which to keep in my set-up, the Virus KB or the KC. Not out of thrift nor need to sell to raise funds for Prophet 12 but for reason of ergonomics/space. (I would probably keep both Virii simply because using one for external signal processing duties as well as....oh hell no...figure can make things work because my dining room is not really being used as such and as long as midi cords are no longer than 50 feet....? HA!:D However, have enough to learn as far as interfaces and DAW so *perhaps* Prophet 12 could be had for a bit less in future? I refuse to do anything via credit, rather, saving and owning something is a personal integrity thing with me. That YouTube sent to me on Prophet 12 by Tweakhead was like injecting 100 PSI into that awful thing called GAS!!:evil: --in a good way as can't wait to drive up to Sweetwater and lay my hands on Prophet 12 when visiting parents next!!

Virus really does need a pressure-sensitive ribbon or XY pad for performance playing. You can tap (effectively gating), scratch, do 2D vector glides, etc., none of which you can do with just a mod wheel or knobs.

I just hope Access finds the time to read this forum, lately eheh...

Even if they made one like I think kurzwiel has as an add-on LONG multi zoned ribbon controller (propriatory though), that could be simply connected into midi in! Yes, it would be at least a good amount of free varied information about how NAMM has really excited us in recent innovations and how as we await *patiently* for Access to finish guitar-centric development and feed their "Viral Children" with something along the lines of 'And now for something completely different"___Monty Python (note to self to buy DVD collection)

Yeah, I think they could do that. But I also think, unlike some here, that it's damn good as it is. There's several issues that often come and go about the virus: most people unpleased with it have some complains about the TI implementation, but I think the simple fact that they've tried it and are getting better at it shows how much they're commited to innovation - since, there's no single company on the market trying to do the same. Feature wise, without even considering this new technology for integrating with the DAW, it's got so many options on its sleave and sounds so good -doing all that it does - and the interface is so inspiring that for those that actually make music, it's still a winner both on studio or stage. I think the competition is lacking much more then they do, thinking about Clavia or Waldorf mainly. The Blofeld is very rich, feature wise, but not so much in terms of physical interface and hence, it's not as good for performance.

The other main complain is about the price, which is true: this things are expensive for sure. And that's where the comparisons with the available software options come in, and how the virus is just software with a dedicated controller, this and that. Maybe it is, but it has inspired me to do better music and that's what counts at the end of the day. And I dare say: good luck trying to find such nice sounding filters on software - Diva included!

Yeah, it is quite damn good as it is! Although that sad argument about a synth being software with knobs is really a beaten horse of a subject because even (especially) ROMplers were moreso that description than anything, samplers, and for most part, anything really in the "VA-definition of a synth"...but the HUGE difference is having an interface that is more organic, touchable, as oposed to the click/clack of mousing about on a screen. SURE, there's some great software synths; I am not disputing that. As also a visual artist, a great analogy is the huge difference in interface of using good old oil paints, brushes, and canvas, and wonderful smell of turpentine:-) oposed to the rather clinical approach of using a mouse and making computer art. BOTH can achieve wonderful results, but it's all about the interface and of course tools. Access Virus Ti certainly has vast technological options to further evolve what they have innovated already and a, sure they have learned alot in this evolution in their appreciated dedication to making it work. I for one chose not to 'give-up' in what the future will bring from this company. THEY ARE still selling TI2's and that says something!

You mean like the Kronos? VST control, with librarian, and audio coming back in?

(You could do that with the M3 as well if you had the Firewire I/O card)

All I want from the M3 is to be able to order the wonderful 88 keybed and place my Radias atop it. Had no idea that the M3 offered the Firewire upgrade (to the M3 unit or special card for PC?) and act as VST. Still, thinking about outright asking to order the 88 keyboard as it has that same propriatorial Korg plug-in rather than midi just like Radias key-rail assembly, right? Learn something everyday!

The M3 can work as a VST by itself, the firewire card just allows audio I/o over firewire.

and the 88-key keyboard can take both an M3 and a Radias simultaneously.

Didn't know about that. Thought Access was the only company going for that kind of integration. But I think my point comes across just fine, what I mean is that it's already a great tool for making music, as it is. It's one thing to debate technology and where it's going, it's quite another to use what we have - that includes our brains, btw, to make music. And I think there's plenty things out there in the market that look rather boring in comparison.

To my mind, Waldorf is lacking a synth with a decent tweakable interface these days. If the Virus is getting old, then what about the Nord Lead?

I wish Waldorf would ship the Stromberg... :(

Great point there! Understanding 'MY' perspective is ONLY a newer one because of many years with the military and abroad; with that even, among the synths I specifically acquired after MUCH research, still remain rather "fresh" and on the cutting edge of technology/abilities/unique characteristics, with the Virus and very knobby interface and just a capable Waldorf Q rack (they compliment each other as they are equally very different sounding and each deeper synths). I would say that Waldorf were safely two decades ahead of their time with the Q and a swarmy of synth-heads on harmonycentral still concur...with yet another Waldorf, microwave XT, more of a purely wavetable synth that neither virus nor Q can make such otherworldly sounds so easily. ONLY DSI Prophet 12 at NAMM 2013 has finally broke THAT glass ceiling in new analog filters mashed with digital madness, and my goal is to strive with *what I already have* reach that same territory, albeit taking three instruments to do so--the tools are here before me! "The sleeper awakens" (Dune)
With that said, there's no reason other than perhaps economics or time itself that's preventing these relatively smaller "fish in the pond synth makers", in releasing yet more future classics.
Time: You nailed that one down with association with using this time to explore the unexplored with WHAT WE HAVE and indeed make music. whether that is music for eels to yawn to or humans to spawn to (or vice versa) :-).
What I find so ironic amidst the 'big three' and plethora of softsynths and yes, even modular companies; it happens to be the VERY "small fish in pond" such as; Access, DSI, Elektron, Waldorf--that REALLY continue to innovate. Heck, the DSI Evolver is over 10 years in production and is literally like chaos theory in a muse' form to mould sound like silly putty. Access's Ti series is still very unexplored territory with many people like a few of us on this forum that still are exploring new territories with former incarnations of the Virus. Waldorf came back and have every reason to believe they will continue to innovate. Nord seems to in my humble opinion, let-go of their micro-modular prematurely. I have not used it nor own any Nord, but those I correspond with and sent sound clips of what they can do (as long as they never upgrade their computer O.S.) is pretty amazing--like Reason in a box.
At NAMM, Korg, after testing analog waters with monotrons, etc., did a brave thing re-releasing MS20 but kingkorg seems to be rehash of Radias/Oasys lineage and although the Korg M3 offers encompassing features--I am sorry, aesthetically, could not be an uglier box and reason only want the outstanding 88 keyboard version that can be used for either M3 or Radias, but if it only has the propriatory Korg nexus rather than proper midi so can place my Q rack on it, forget it.
Namm 2013 has done something to make me realize something that Tweakhead nailed it in on: As much as I would LIKE the new Korg MS20 or DSI Prophet 12, I want to make FULL use of the still ahead of the pack in synth technology that we each own in any version of Virus, DSI MEK, and Waldorf Q--and wait until a future point if my *needs* out-weigh my proverbial *wants*. While I realize my philosophy may run counterintuitive to what NAMM wants us to do--slave to consumerism and marketing, and can smile every now and then knowing Dave Smith has again pushed the limits rather than re-issue the past. That same thinking makes me realize that the Virus Ti offeres ALOT of uncharted territory for the future and I for one, do not mind being a "bottom-feeder" of technology.:mrgreen:

Although I actually find Blofeld's grid-matrix quite intuitive, programming could be SO insane in a gewat way if a super-knobby controller box were issued by them to sit nicely atop unused realestate very much like Virus KC's. They would sell alot of them! The Blofeld is very deep sound designer's synth if you dig-in to the virtually unlimited territory under the hood!

The Stromberg (which disappeared from their site) was supposed to be a 61-key knobby Blofeld with an option for analog filters...

Vaporware until proven otherwise, at least the Pulse 2 is still listed with a Spring 2013 release. Just sent Waldorf Support a tech question (they got back to me earlier in month about Q-cards for my Q rack rather quickly and helpful in my quest), and along with tech question, asked when audio samples may be posted on site for pulse 2? Cannot hurt to ask? You could get a Behringer BCR2000 and have an effective and inexpensive as-you-wish midi cc asignable knobby interface easily. Did this NAMM event show a newer Dark Energy 2?

The first release date of Pulse 2 was almost one year ago. Hope the synth will not postponed again.

Speaking of integration my Novation Mininova got an integrated VST with all parameters, it's very cool.
The Virus is getting old? Do you know another super-knobby synth with 16 channels, fx and vst in the same price range?

In my opinion, if there's been a synth from Waldorf ahead of its time it was the Waldorf's Wave. It has the wavetables and analogue filters on it!! There's an "old" ancestor of this new Prophet 12! :cool:

The Microwave 1 also had warm analog filters in it but interface was crap and Access actually made a knobby programer for it. You are correct, the new DSI Prophet 12 is to me Dave Smith's genius of bringing ALL the best sound-sculpting electronica tools under one hood, along with seemingly newer innovations in manipulating them. It's like this--among my synths, I have *most* of what it would take to make that cool sound design demo YT Video sent to me (thanks), but scattered about in four synths. I am REALLY interested in knowing how and if one can use the mod matrix to take analog lpf and hpf in parallel and LFO's on wavetables with a looping envelope! I am not exactly a dumb ex-military guy, and am still trying to wrap my head around modifiers in practice/use on microwave XT--DSI may have made this much easier. Always wanted a Sequential Prophet VS but used they go for what this new Pro12 suggested retail price is and seeing how this new DSI synth is very deep, kind of think the price is very fair and will sell a ton of them! Perhaps I will need to talk my 23 LB cat into buying me one?

Regarding DSI Prophet 12- From another forum, reported by a guy who visited the DSI booth at NAMM:
"The oscillators are virtual, produced by a total of six SHARC chips. Output is then converted to analog to go to filters and VCAs. The chips also handle effects."
It was firther discussed that those SHARC chips are the EXACT mega proccessor chips used in the "Solaris". Not exactly surprising since during the Sequential Circuits days then at end, only "Sequential", Dave Smith along with Don Solaris and others from Sequential Team worked with Korg to make the Wavestation. The "Solaris" seems to be a built-to-order, non-mass-production synth that once I find more info on it will confirm that it seems to have some "DAW Integration Qualities". In any case, those SHARC Chips DSI is using in Prophet 12 give massive DSP power to where no real bottleneck for future added features.
ALSO, we were speculating on infekted if like on the Prophet VS, if it were possible to control in a vector way the wavetable in which in the VS and similarly in Wavestation Series, you have FOUR directional waveforms to be able to blend, etc.
The DSI Prophet apparently allows THREE wavetables to be blended,(see *****below), interestingly, and can be found in more detailed specs listed below:
* 12 voices
* 4 Oscillators per voice capable of classic and complex waveforms
- Low alias digital oscillators of several flavors: tri, saw, pulse, sine, noise and 4 wavetable based sources
- Oscillator params: FM, AM, Sync, Level, Pitch (Coarse+Fine), extended slop algorithm, shape, shape mod/pulsewidth
* Sub oscillator
* Shape Mod/Pulsewidth control changes based on oscillator type:
- Pulse and Tri - Pulsewidth control
- Saw - Supersaw effect (note: not complete in NAMM units)
- Noise - Pink on the left, White in the middle, Blue/Violet on the right
- *****Wavetables - Blends between 3 different waveforms, one on the left, one in the middle, one on the righ*****t
* Post FX section, fully analog signal path (no DAC/ADC converstion) with digital effects summed with analog signal at wet/dry points
- Analog VCA and panning
- Analog stereo distortion
- Analog resonant Lowpass filter per voice
- Analog resonant Highpass filter per voice
- All analog parameters are modulated at >11kHz sample rate
* Digital FX 'Character' Section:
- NOTE: Effects are not finalized (besides Drive) and will be improved and possible changed before release
- Air - High shelf with soft clipping
- Girth - Low shelf with saturation
- Hack - Bit Crush
- Decimate - Sample Rate Reduction
- Drive - Overdrive/Saturation
* Tons of modulation:
- 4 LFOs up to 4kHz rate, sync and multiple shapes
- 4 Envelopes - VCA, Filter and 2 Auxiliary. ADSR plus delay
- 16 Mod slots - Oscillators can be used as sources for FM control of a wide range of params
* Two Pressure- and Position-sensitive touch faders for added control in addition to the pitch and mod wheels
* 4 Delay lines
- Can sync to internal arp clock or to external MIDI clock
- ~1 second buffer for each delay line
- Amount, Feedback, and Rate controls on front panel
- Delay time ranges from reverb and flanger effects to a looper with feedback turned to max
- Delay algorithms not finalized in NAMM units and will be improved by release
* Tuned Feedback
* Expanded Arpeggiator modes
* Quick mod section:
- example: holding 'mod source' and hitting 'Osc 1' creates a new mod with 'Osc 1' as the source and brings up the screen. Then holding 'mod destination' and moving the 'Air' encoder assigns the destination to 'Air'. Simple!
- Sorting of mods by slot number, mod source or mod destination which includes the fixed mods (destination params for LFOs and Envelopes) to quickly deconstruct programs. Makes it very easy to see what mods are affecting what parameters at a glance
* Playlist mode for queueing up programs to use in a set for quick 1-button access to quickly load presets. 4 Playlists with 10 presets plus an extended playlist mode if more complicated setups are needed.

I am hoping that 'Doc' Trippler does some demoing of this beast as he always uses extreme modulations to really show what any given synth is capable of beyond your not always all that great YouTube demos.