And the copying never happened in any other genre? Prog Rock never got "copied"? Give over!

Plagiarism doesn't diminish an original - or at least it shouldn't IMO.

I say again - there are *many* creative producers out there.

If you don't want to see past the end of your musical nose, at least have the decency to not diminish a whole genre you're not familiar with.

I think I'll have to repeat myself again. ?hih.

Everyhting gets copied to certain point. You can't make anything totally new nowadays. To create something new you just end up combining things in a new innovative way. This is what I'd like to see. People bringing something new to the genre. Something that's not done before.

The point here is that on some genres producers are just making almost exact replicates only changing a little bit of it. Nothing personal, nothing new, just mindless boring copies. It's like every track is a new remix of an old track. This is a problem especially on some electronic music genres. It's just sad that the some creative stuff get drowned by this mindless copycat crap. The precentage of creative stuff on some genres is about 1% or less.

As I mentioned on my earlier postings, sometimes it feels that people forget to be creative and break the rules. They are afraid to experiment. Thay are too serious. They think like that a law forces them to do exactly the same stuff over and over again.

And again: Forget the seriousness. As one producer I know said: "Being serious and making well is two different things". This means that making good music doesn't mean (and usually won't mean) that you'll have to be dead serious.

ROFL - exact copies!?

How many "Tribute Bands" are there in psy-trance as opposed to prog rock?

And for the record - I actually like prog rock, except where it gets really self-indulgent (and it does).

My real objection to your anti-trance argument (over several threads) is where you're saying that: because some trance has been effectively plagiarised (and I don't see it in my championed sub-genre after many years of involvement BTW), trance is therefore somehow worth condemnation - wholesale.

It seems you don't like to miss an opportunity to put *trance* down.

I say again - plagiarism doesn't diminish an original idea.

Aaargh! I wrote a long posting and then the browser decided to do something funny and closed the window. Well, to put it short in few steps:

1. I'm speaking of all music in general, but the problem is worst in electronic music where the threshold to start making music is the lowest.

2. I don't see anything good in plagiarism. Of course it brings certain safety to a genre (i.e. you don't ever get suprised, ?hih).

3. And I say again: They are creative producers around in every genre (well, almost in every genre, ?hih), but the precentage of the creative people is getting smaller and smaller every day. This is a problen, no?

Hmmm. Well I'm not sure that even electronic music is as pervasive.

I'm thinking about the multitude of guitarist wannabees - more lo-tech, but just as much potential for lack of creativity.

I understand your argument. All I'm saying (and you do seem to be agreeing in a sense) is that there is quality stuff in there - OK you might have to dig through the crap to get at it.

But hey - that's part of my *job* as a DJ. Find the gems and play them to an audience.

:wink:

Also for the record - I don't just DJ other producer's material. I also produce myself. Hence the interest in this forum

Used to own a Virus B, but swapped it out for Virus Powercore. Fits in better with my studio as things are.

Yup. But on the era of cheap/free ok quality software more and more of these guitar hero wannabe's end up making trance. By the way have anyone done research why all the wannabe kids start making trance? Why not electronica or drum'n'bass?

Yes. And digging through the crap is frusturating when the amount of crap is virtually insane.

Yup. I planned to get a PoCo Virus next year. Getting a cheap software Virus is perfect for my needs.

BTW - I think you might have mis-understood what I meant by "plagiarism doesn't diminish an original".

I meant that because something is 'copied', it doesn't mean that the original becomes worthless. The original still stands in its own right.

I wasn't trying to say plagiarism is a good thing.

The original doesn't get worthless, the copy is worthless. It's like forging known paintings - The original retains its value and the forgery is totally worthless. And the more people forge the more worthless the average gets.

Like this you mean?

"ReGenesis - The Early Genesis Tribute Band"

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~andyrh/

"Tribute" bands (as a concept in general)

:roll:

Hey, can't get enought vintage Genesis, I say. Tribute bands, covers and remixes are not a problem. Actually they are brilliant.

But - they're copies!?!?

"The original doesn't get worthless, the copy is worthless. It's like forging known paintings - The original retains its value and the forgery is totally worthless. And the more people forge the more worthless the average gets."

:lol:

I know there's the point that they're meant to be copies and stated as such, but that's no real excuse in my book. Where's the "creativity" there. Sure - take the originals as influence and extrapolate. No problems with that.

The kind of style copying you seem to be levelling at trance, I'd also level at bands say like: Marrilion (sp?) who sounded very much like Genesis.

They were adopting a style, not duplicating tracks. That's all that's happening in the Trance I come across. I don't hear attempts to duplicate, but I do see the adoption of styles.

Right or wrong, everyone has a right to their opinion, and just because someone doesnt agree with it, doesnt mean that their opinion is somehow invalid......

My opinion? Trance is shit.....

:)

And you'd be *wrong*!

Just my opinion of course.

:wink:

Hehehe....... :)

opinions are like ass-holes. everyone has one and they usually stink :wink: (another bad aussie saying - gotta love em)

Juho im sorry but i believe you contradicted yourself there son :wink:

I agree with purusha - in any given genre you have to wade through a lot of average releases to find the truly inspirational and original material.
psytrance and its sub-genres have been over ridden with freaks on pcs with loads of burnt software and a soundblaster soundcard.

Please place a solid distinction between hard house/euro trance and psytrance. These are two vastly differently styles of music and scenes and it is not fair to throw them in the same basket. (sorry to hard house lovers - not my cup of tea).

Psychedelic trance to me is a little too much. i overload on too many layers, especially when there are 20 odd of them - all arpeggiated and all with ridiculous fx and panning.
But from psytrance the progressive genre was born. It focuses on a more minimal sound, intricate rhythms, and clean production. Labels such as Zenon and Plusquam records have been promoting their own style of this genre for some time now and if you gave some of this stuff a listen, you could not deny the quality of the arrangements, nor the sheer musical genius that some of these guys possess.

be careful to bag a genre/style before you have really looked into whats
available... im not sure too many here wouldve appreciated me jumping on here and saying 'that john-nickel-jar guy suck arse' :wink:

Thought there was a bit of foot shooting going on there meself blay.

BTW - the material I usually DJ is where psy & prog trance start to cross-over. Not ever-so keen on the Israeli style hundreds of layers stuff myself.

Yes, because they are intented to be so. It's not plagiarism we are dealing with in there. The problem part is the plagiarism or semi-plagiarism in which yous teal the ideas of others rather than using your own ideas.

That's why we call Marillion as a poor man's Genesis. Hoho. As I said this kind of duplicating and copying is problem on many areas. Less on some, more on others. The point is that there's very few creative things around even the technology has offered more and more possibilities for creativity and sound design.

This discussion is straying away from the original idea... I'll have to check what was the original thesis... Yes. The next dance music sound. I hopw it's something new. I think I'll have to save the tomorrow.

But - your original point was a lack of creativity in a particular genre!!!

Where's the creativity in a Tribute band?

It's very different to perform covers and/or remixes than copy other artist's/band's style and music and perform it as your own.

And I see no reason why remixes and cover bands couldn't be creative.

Edit: By the way you're welcome to participate our little remix contest.

i agree with this statement.
but you have to admit there arent too many current covers/remixes available that have anything worthwhile musically to offer :roll:

(back to the same heap to sort through the shit and find yourself a gem)

Or they have good musical content but tend to sound exactly like the original (which is sometimes good and sometimes bad). The same rules apply to these covers and remixes as applies to all other kinds of music: There are good ones and bad or inferior ones. But then again there are some innovative combinations like Beatallica which are good as the hundred lousy ones are bad. That's just brilliant.

never heard of beatallica :?:

What?! You have missed a lot!

http://www.beatallica.com/

it sounds like the type of thing youd cunjure up with your mates over an excessive amount of alcohol - but never go through with :wink:

Let's not forget:

http://www.dreadzeppelin.com/

Led Zep done Reggae stylee with an Elvis Impersonator front-man.

Video trailer at:

http://www.backbedroom.com/trailer1.mov

:lol: